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More for repairing inner tubes than batteries, but what an amazing survival! Especially with such complete paperwork … that belongs in a museum! Someone got a bargain, at only ?6, but surely of no use today. Never understood why hot vulcanising was necessary, when rubber cement and patches work perfectly … perhaps the adhesives weren’t much good back then.
LaurenceHi David,
The word “vulcanite” springs to mind. i’d be surprised if these weren’t made of the same material as the original prewar battery cases, unless a cheaper material justifying its use. Yes, I’m sure they would shatter, given the opportunity!
Off to search ebay ….
LaurenceWow David, where did you get those?! Are any more available?
The covers won’t be bakelite, which would be rather too brittle. They’ll be the same material as the battery cases were, a very hard rubber compound. The plates were held in with pitch, which clearly attaches pretty firmly. I would imagine Isopon/Plastic Padding type fillers would work well, you might even be able to add colour (soot?) whilst mixing, otherwise paint to match. You would need to clean and roughen the damaged surface first.
Laurence
Hi Julian,
My front shock absorbers also appear to have been painted the same grey.
That’s interesting. One of the petrol filler pipes on my V12 is painted creamy white, the other is bare aluminium. My suspicion here is that OS & NS appear identical, but of course, aren’t. So to save confusion, my theory is they painted one side so that orientation would be easy.
Also, I suspect there was an element of the factory using whatever was to hand, and there is plenty of evidence of that with my V12, which was one of the last made; not registered until December 1940.
Oh yes! My V12 was on its third engine by 1945, and second gearbox.
Paragon Paint …. funnily enough, that was the firm I chose, and thank you for the reassuring comments.
Finally, Julian, here’s an oddball one! The LAGONDA script on the cam boxes appears to have originally been painted a medium light blue, something like RAF blue. I’ve been cleaning up parts as I’m taking them off the car, and there are signs that the rod pivoting in the bulkhead which operates the throttles was also painted the same blue. Have you encountered that?!
LaurenceIt appears to be a lever which pivots about a central pin, with the fork moving something with a recess machined in it. Can’t identify it, but it’s operation might help you narrow down where it might go. With no hole/attachment evidence on the lever section, the implication is that it is operated manually, and located somewhere oily!
LaurenceDear Julian,
Many thanks for your reply. Interesting! No trace of black on mine, and Lagonda numbers were painted over the grey, so I’m pretty confident the grey was applied at Staines. The handbook title page illustration shows exhaust manifolds, distributors, carburetters as black, but the block, heads and rear mounting arms are a lighter colour.
I’ve ordered an engine paint to BS381C “631 Light Grey”, following discovering a Trimite paint chart I acquired in the 1970s. Their “631 Light Grey” looks a very close match.
My LG6 engine is also light grey. In this case, repainted by the rebuilders, but can it have been coincidence they painted it that colour? Maybe it was later engines that were finished in grey; both are cars very near the end of production.
Kind regards
LaurenceIt’s a little surprising that the Club replicas are not stamped or marked clearly in some way to identify them as non-period items. This could so easily be done on the reverse, so no impact when used, but clear to all if sold on, that the item is not genuine. I have a spare radiator shell starting handle “bung” for the V12 which I bought on ebay, and note that someone has etched the year it was made on the rear face. Way to go.
There is also a problem in reverse, so to speak. I had the LG6’s badge restored by Pamela David Enamels, great job. Two of the original studs were missing, and the third no good. So it now has new studs …. so, how do I prove it’s not a replica?!
Regarding the ebay item, if original, it is remarkably unworn through polishing. Those striations above the letters GON are usually well worn.
Hi David,
I haven’t forgotten, still getting round to taking photos.
Meanwhile, a little more research. Firstly, your Z4166 number will almost certainly be the Lagonda factory part number. Most of their part numbers for my V12 are Pxxxx, but a smattering are Zxxx, eg the wheels are Z4101/2.
Have at last come across a 1939 Lucas catalogue online. This frustratingly details many cars, but not Lagonda, for most items. Perhaps there’s a separate section at the end I haven’t got to yet! Nevertheless, struck gold with “Batteries”. This states that 1935 (and on, going by their style) 4 1/2 litre : 2-6TXR13. For 1938 LG6 and V12, 2-SLTR15E … thus it differs slightly from the 2 units SLTSR15E detailed in the handbook. Needless to say, it can’t even be that “simple”. My works record states (Lagonda part number P8017) 6LTSR15!
The 6TXR13 is also noted as fitted to 1931: all models, 1932: Supercharged, 1933: 2 and 3-Litre. The only other vehicle using a 6TXR13 is the Hispano Suiza 30hp; interestingly, the 37.2hp has a 12TXR13. Raises an interesting point as to the meaning of these references. 6 and 12 are obvious, but some, like those for my V12 have neither stated. I’d take a guess that the other number featured is the number of plates. The letters? Conjecture S = Short, L = Long, T = Tall, X = Extra, R = Regular, W = Wide. But then there are Ys and Ds.
I think I’ve found an answer re the voltage absence for the V12 & LG6 reference. They are Lucas Lucas batteries; the 6TXR13 is a Lucas CAV battery! This also disproves my theory (already!). Two grades of battery are tabled; the basic version of the 6TXR13 is 6TXW13. The listings are headed (basic) “WOOD SEPARATORS”, whilst the 6TXR13 is under “DELUXE MODELS WITH THREADED RUBBER INSULATION”. Thus, W = Wood, and R = Rubber. Cor, this reminds me of algebra!
The 6TXR13 specifcation is: Actual capacity in amp hours when discharged in 10 hours; 75amps, and in 20 hours, 85 amps. Length 8 1/2″, Length over lugs 9 3/8″ (in other words, that will presumably be the original spacing for your mounting studs), Width 6 7/8″, and Height over terminals 9 1/2″. Regarding that latter, note that the height with cover isn’t stated, probably because the cover was an extra, 5/6d!
Unfortunately for me, not so easy for my V12 batteries, there is no reference close enough, but perhaps I can figure something out. I can see that the only other cars fitted with 2-SLTR15E were Alvis SP25s and 4.3s.
LaurenceHmm, the battery I used in my LG6 was actually the one fitted to my Riley RMB in 2015, a Shield 291 (thus a single 12 volt battery), and that had been replaced under guarantee due to a faulty cell even before I collected the car from the body restorer. I last drove my Riley in 1975, and the car rewarded me by running 2400 miles in 7 weeks before running a big end. The battery then saw temporary service on my John Deere mower (which may not have been too kind to it, to be fair, no smooth lawns gere!), before being used in my LG6. The LG6 broke down in 2019, and I’ve regularly charged the battery since, hoping to use it for the V12, initially. Not to be. A cell has failed. Not too impressed, just 6 years service from a rather expensive battery, I’m used to seeing 10 years plus. So I’m not too sure I’ll go the Shield route again, but to be fair, it had a lot of jolting and vibration on the John Deere, and lack of use is not good news for batteries. Mind you, my restorer averred when I originally suggested Lincon for the battery, that Shield make the batteries for Lincon. I’m not sure that is correct, Shield state that they are the only manufacturers of such batteries in the UK, whilst Lincon state they have been batterymen since 1908 and specifically state that their batteries are manufactured on-site. Someone is telling porkies! The classic battery list for both appears remarkably similar …
So the reality is perhaps that, whatever is said, there is in reality only one classic battery manufacturer, in the UK anyway. Holthausen’s book demonstrates that Bosch supply classic batteries, so that is an option, perhaps!
LaurenceHi David,
When the Holthausen book was originally published, it appeared extremely expensive at some ?300, especially given that I imagined a rehash of Davey’s history with some photos of his own cars. I finally got to see a copy of the book around 2010, and realised it was much better than that. I ended up paying ?800 for one a couple of years ago … that price only justified by the fact that it would only get more expensive! Even so, my other interest is antique books … and I’ve never paid anything like that, even for multi-volume sets! Mind you, I was more than surprised to find my name in the book … a photo acknowledgement; surprised as I hadn’t been contacted, and had I been, I would have preferred the originator of the photo, John Capon, who worked at Lagonda and let me copy his photos, to be named. Ho hum.
Let me have your email address (perhaps by PM) and I’ll take the photos and send to you.
LaurenceHi David,
We do now! At last got round to going through the Holthausen Lagonda book. Pages 180 &181 have half-page clear period photos of a bonnet-less LG45. No batteries … good …. because you can clearly see pairs of long studs, excactly in alignment with how the batteries are placed in your photo. As each side of the car is shown, the studs are visible in both compartments.
So … your batteries would have been held down by countersunk headed screws, internally threaded, through the battery covers, engaging with those studs.
Needless to say, no such luck for V12 or LG6. Indeed, Holthausen replaced his bulkheads entirely, eliminating any untidy features, so no original battery stay lugs, indeed his batteries appear to be entirely unrestrained. The only good news is that I can see (perhaps unsurprisingly), he sourced period style batteries from Bosch, which gives me an avenue to investigate.
Perhaps I’ll contact Arnold to see if he has any V12 battery compartment photos. If you don’t have the Holthausen book or access, I can photo the pages; let me know.
LaurenceHi David,
Ah, I see. Interesting! But I can’t see how leather straps, presumably with buckles, would have provided the precise and strong tension needed to retain such heavy items. Those photos don’t show straps, either. We need a time machine!
LaurenceHi David,
Problem was my file size was too large to download here, too much faffing to sort it. But whilst yours is a different advert and view, that’s pretty much the same battery in the 1940 advert … and now I’ve magnified it, it does show a lid.
Your other photo is just the job … except, for me, not much help! I assumed a similar arrangement, but the V12 battery compartment is one long “box”, with the batteries mounted sideways, whereas mine would have been end to end.
I doubt a leather strap would have been used by the factory, as I would imagine acidic battery fumes would rot that pretty quickly. If original, maybe it held a tool/tools?
Unfortunate Arnold’s ” … in Detail” book doesn’t extend to battery compartment photos. Likewise my book of reprint road tests doesn’t help, although there is another LG45 battery photo. I can’t detect any straps or bars, and to me, the neatest solution would have been to run a long screw down from those holes in the battery lid and casing, down to captive nuts in the box floor.
LaurenceAn acquaintance fitted some to his Riley, a 1949 RMA. He had great difficulty getting a good focus and beam pattern, but eventually succeeded. So, worthwhile but perhaps don’t expect to simply fit and drive!
LaurenceHi David,
Z4166 is a completely different style of reference, possibly an earlier iteration of the ones for the V12, as your dimensions aren’t markedly different to mine.I sent you an email from your profile on here, did you receive that? I aimed to include a scan of a 1940 Lucas battery advert, which depicts a battery with holes in the casing edges which I suspect the centre battery retaining bar would engage with. Interestingly, the battery is shown without a cover, so presumably Lucas had stopped supplying these, perhaps as a nod to wartime necessities. That said, I have one of these covers, a good inch or more deep. It would be great to see a period photo of the batteries in late 30s Lagondas! If you didn’t receive my email, you can find mine in the Register, email and I’ll respond.
Laurence