Forum Replies Created
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Hi David,
What worries me is the 6″ centre punch, inviting owners to commit butchery!
If your car is similar in that respect to the V12, the N/S (dummy) wheelcase should have a panel held on by the hinge plates that is leatherette covered and stitched to accept presumably all the smaller tools….can send a picture if yours is missing.
My tools (mainly) didn’t come with my car but were purchased from the late John Finch…I was really pleased to find that many were stamped “WAR FINISH”…ideal for my car, registered December 1940! I can’t recall now if they also came from John, but I’ve also got some Lagonda factory tools, stamped with an engineer’s name.
Yes, happy to send pictures, please pm email address to me. I can’t promise to get the pictures done soon, but as soon as I’ve got some spare time I’ll find them & take them. Intrigued also to see what the valve spring compressor looks like…is this the special toolkit one that retains the valve via the spark plug orifice, thus enabling spring changes without removing the cylinder head?
Laurence
Hi David,
Just checked the V12 handbook, and the list although largely identical is even longer…but does include “Licence holder” (a tool?!), Leather bag for large tools, spare spark plugs, various special items for the hydraulic brakes, & a special spanner for the (Hypoid) rear axle.Perhaps the perception was that owners expected a formidable & comprehensive array of tools when purchasing such an expensive car, but I wonder how many original owners thought of actually using the tools, as opposed to having the car worked on…especially given the effectively lifetime guarantee depending on regular works overhauls and carte blanche approach to replacing anything they saw fit?
Laurence
Hi David,
The tools in my V12 tool kit are all made by Shelley, but of course it’s possible Lagonda used a different supplier previously. I can only be certain that the inspection lamp was the same (although if you want to be pedantic, it’s possible the finish on that was different), that of course is a Joseph Lucas product.
LaurencePaulin also I believe was responsible for the Embiricos Bentley, which was and is a truly gorgeous car, and I will concede, more attractive than JPG492, Lagonda’s V12 response.
The R Type Continental…yes, beautiful…so much so that if my original quest for a V12 drophead not been successful, I would have bought one of these instead. Great car, provided rear seat passengers have no legs below the knees. Strange that they could produce a car so beautiful, yet also be responsible for the MkVI & standard R Types, exercises in utter stodge, not to mention rust.Agreed Derby Bentleys often have bodies of lighter appearance, but this V12 is “mundane”? Presumably you find modern RRs & Bentleys attractive!
Does seem to be a great opportunity for someone to buy a V12 in un-messed about condition. Can we but hope it doesn’t re-appear as a LM rep.
The engine is very much a Sanction 2 one; perhaps unlikely therefore the original December 1938 factory fitment. First time I’ve seen what the breather pipes from the valve covers to the air silencer look like. Interesting also to see the ignition coils on the battery side of the bulkhead, with the king leads passing through grommets.
LaurenceHi Alistair,
The issue here is perhaps that the factory “engine” number for these is that stated on the original registration document and indeed the car data plate on the bulkhead. That number is in fact the chassis number, and that is why that number appears. The real engine number would be V12/— , but I believe Lagondas deliberately stated the chassis number so as to indulge their love of engine swapping. In most cases, the chassis number would be stamped on the engine timing cover. It is quite possible that this car’s engine is therefore also stamped 16011.
One thing is clear, which I’m sure Eckhard appreciates, is that the engine in his car was at one time, perhaps when new, in the car advertised. V12/11, the number of Eckhard’s engine, is pretty early, so also more likely to have started life in this car than Eckhard’s. Incidentally, my LG6’s “engine” number is 12360, as the chassis number…but just visible nearby is 12525 (last digit indistinct), so a neat illustration of Lagonda practice.
Was there a Bentley 4.2 litre V12 engine? I rather suspect that this is a DVLA “correction”; they “corrected” my V12’s to something like 5348cc…presumably an Aston Martin engine size; 4200 indicates Jaguar to me!
What delightful conjecture this is! Having made much of the “Bentley” engine, and with so many photos, why none of the engine?!
LaurencePerhaps a discovery; have found no mention of this registration in any of my membership lists. “4200cc” is not correct for a V12; it does appear to have twin exhausts though. I too thought “red” odd, the car is clearly black & that appears to be the original paintwork. Lagondas thought nothing of transferring engines between cars; mine had 3 different engines in it before 1945!
Nice to think that one could just change the oil and run it; but how likely is that? We are not told why it was taken off the road..Laurence
Hi Peter,
You echo my sentiments, I’ve yet to see an alternative coachbuilder’s body that competes with Lagonda’s (ie Frank Feeley’s) own. This one is interesting but perhaps too fussy for my taste.
That said, I quite like the V12 tourer by (I think) Vanden Plas, which I believe still survives in America, much better than Lagonda’s unsurprisingly rare tourer offering on the V12/LG6 chassis.
But of course they were different times. The non-Lagonda coachwork purchaser presumably wanted, perhaps for that very reason, something different to the factory offerings. That still doesn’t explain why some truly gruesome and staid formal bodies were built on one of the period’s most advanced and fastest chassis!
LaurenceSeems to have a V12 rev counter!
Hi Julian,
I was referring solely to the RM series Rileys regarding team cars, so yes I’m fully aware of their track record pre-war. I think the only RM to compete in period was AEN10, a Roadster, and in any event that looked pretty similar to the production Roadster.
The RM saloon has a reputation for being one of the more difficult bodies to restore, and I daresay some of the cost of restoring a Lagonda saloon is based on the perception of the marque. Good point about parts availability, indeed even most wood body frame parts are “on the shelf” for RMs, & that must help tremendously.
There must be some affinity between Rileys and Lagondas because as you state, I’m not the only one with foot in both camps. Indeed, when I started going to RM Club meetings in the mid seventies, a guy often turned up in a Lagonda 2 litre fitted with an RM 2.5 litre engine; a great combination, & of course that engine design dated back to 1926, so not inappropriate.
Sadly the every day useability of a saloon will be of little interest to most buyers nowadays; perhaps as they become fewer, their rarity will increase their appeal! Really it needs people to think less of the end value and more of the beautiful car they will end up with. As an aside, I think the V12 Le Mans is a bit of a whale of a car to look at anyway…I suspect Frank Feeley was rushed into it just as Bentley was rushed into producing a Le Mans V12. Perhaps the 1940 Le Mans car would have been as gorgeous as the production cars!Laurence
Well said.
I have a 1951 Riley 2.5, my first car. I bought it in 1974, did 1200 miles in it in 1975, and took it off the road for 3 or 4 weeks to replace the roof covering. Slowly it dawned on me that people had been mad enough to actually build a wooden frame then nail and weld the panels around it as recently as 1951, and also I found that my love and expertise for things mechanical didn’t extend, at all, to work on the body. I suspect I’m not alone in that, which perhaps explains why so many saloons end up derelict.
In my case, I carried on dismantling the car over the years, but realised eventually that I was just too busy running my own business to spend the large chunks of time necessary. So a stark choice. Buy a good one (as I should have done originally) and sell or keep for spares my old one, or get it professionally restored. In the end I’ve opted for professional restoration, in full awareness that it will end up costing more than twice what the car will be worth.
I’ve justified it on the basis that I’ve never bought a new car and never will do so, so will never suffer the heavy depreciation entailed there.
Fortunately the lesson was well learnt so I took great care to check the body & wood frame of my V12 drophead before buying it.
It does seem odd to me that I’m not alone in having my RM professionally restored, so the question remains that if RileyRM owners are prepared to restore their saloons, why not Lagonda owners? Perhaps it helps that there were no “team car” Rileys, so no prospect of making big bucks by making replicas.Hi Julian,
Fair enough and of course I agree, indeed I know of 2 recent Le Mans conversions where no body existed and where the existing coachwork was truly derelict.
That said, I suspect quite a few of the others have had viably restorable bodies, indeed I recall seeing one advertised not far from where I used to live in the UK.
My LG6 special was purchased as a seemingly derelict rolling chassis by the previous owner in 1985. I was horrified to discover it had been taxed and therefore Mot’d & driveable as recently as 1979. In that case, the then owner was a well-known VSCC racing member, who doubtless had plans, which he changed his mind over. I have been contacted by the family of its first owner, Frank Haslam, who was the architect of Odeon cinemas, and that of the second owners, and of course they are disappointed to see the car no longer exists as they knew it.
The even sadder correlation to all this is that the parts left over end up with the scrapyard, not because they don’t have a value, but because the economics of turning out a fake Le Mans are all-persuasive. The fake Le Mans will sell for several times the value of a restored saloon, yet the restored saloon will have cost several times what it takes to make a Le Mans rep.
Perhaps one day we will see old cars “listed” as with stately homes, then at least the viability of the existing coachwork would be known!Now we’re onto Lagondas in films, there’s a V12 drophead in one of the pre-war series of “Saint” films, starring George Sanders, and an LG45 drophead in “Mrs Miniver”, annoyingly displaying a spoof British registration!
Barry,
Undoubtedly it’s yet another lovely saloon vandalised into a Le Mans rep. A bit like vintage Bentleys, of 2 Le Mans cars, there are probably 20 survivors!
“Lagonda Joe” is Joe Harding, who is responsible for much the foregoing!Laurence