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Dear Richard,
welcome in the Lagonda world. As emailed: looks nice, I don’t know details about it, the front flash lights are out of place and bulbs will not like the shaking, valances on the inside of the front wings are missing. Any 16/80 specialist with comments about the body ?
Intereresting what you found in google, is that about this car? often a saloon body has been replaced by a tourer body (but non original bodies of course are a minus at least should be in price). The engine in this 16/80 is the correct (Crossley) engine (compare photos here: http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/94902/index.html) it is not the much heavier and differently looking 16/65 one
I do not want to try to write the history and development of Lagonda cars here, recommended books to start with: the two latest books by Arnold Davey (see Literature in the main menu upper left corner)
Joining the club is also recommended, even before you have a Lagonda, nice people !
Quite a late reply but here is a simple adaptor I made: modern grease nipple on one side 5/16 BSF thread on the other for the floating pins.
Solidified grease could be Shell Retinax G. I used it in the gearbox of my Aero 18 30 yers ago (and it is still there).
I wonder myself whether grease or oil is better for the clutch pins. Several Lagonda people recommended oil. On the other hand grease is much more viscous, so when you press it in, it distributes more evenly to the 3 exit holes of the pin. And it was recommended by Lagonda.
Done ! last Saturday and Sunday all went back in. Every muscle was hurting afterwards. The clutch pack (see picture) that has to be moved in while working under the dashboard weighs 23kg! It has to be put in as one pack and it only worked by lifting the rear side of the engine by more than an inch.
Relining of the plates had been done by Midland Brakes, total cost 80 GBP for the two plates (linings included, they provided them). Somehow they managed to put one of the linings on the wrong side despite they were doing 2 other 2ltr clutches at the same time. So one more shipment back and forth but they did a good job at a very reasonable price.
Why it took 2 days to mount it? next time I will be faster and when you creep in and under your car you find always several other things that should be fixed or improved. I must say I really love the mechanics of the 2ltr, still vintage design. At least as an engineer this is most delightful, much more fun than working on later cars for me.
I did not put shims to the clutch springs. In the end I thought it should be enough with new springs and also was recommended this by a Club friend.
I lifted the engine 2-3mm by putting additional rubber under the mountings, because the pushrod to the clutch brake was fouling the brake cross bar (see picture clutch adjustments).
Yesterday I did the test drive, seems all ok. I will probably check again for the settings of clutch ejector, clutch brake and may be even alignment of the engine to the gearbox after a short while. This alignment is important because if it is not good, there may be some tilting of the clutch plate when disingaged.
See also attached drawing of clutch and clutch ejector.
(26.5.2015:) It seems I am the only one at the moment interested in the 2ltr clutch. I received the new springs from the club. They are about 1mm longer uncompressed (the old ones have lost this length). Now the scientific approach: I measured the spring rate of both. I misused a powder cake compression and stability tester for this and got these two curves for the old and new springs. Fitted a curve in Excel. Important are the two rates (not the absolute position of the curves in the diagrams). The old spring has a rate of 17.4 N/mm and the new one 19.9 N/mm. So the old one has lost about 15% of its strength. Putting the new ones plus shims will certainly help.
Now two more thoughts:
1. Greasing/oiling the floating pins in the clutch cover plate: attached photo shows their condition (after cleaning and sanding with fine paper). Some are nice some quite corroded. A common recommendation is to oil them instead of greasing (as originally intended, see the reprint of the instruction book). I am not sure if oiling is good because the lubricant has to reach the right place through the two radial holes bored in the first and third quarter on its length. If these holes by chance are facing down, oil will trickle in. If they are facing up, it will not. Grease under some pressure can be forced through. But of course it will go the easiest way, so if the play in the bush in the flywheel is large, much may go straight through the axial bore of the pin and leave via this bush. Greasing requires a special screw on greaser (5/16 BSF thread) make or buy?. Oil or grease?, comments welcome.
2. Driving plate: it is thin, so heats up very quickly. The one supplied by club spares, is it a special steel or would it make sense to find a better steel? Make it a little thicker (my old one is 2.5mm thick)?
(attached the clutch assembly photo, taken from the instruction book, for better understanding of the whole story)
There should be some around even if the total prroduced number is low, it is a question of beeing at the right place at the right time (wait and search). You should find an engineless saloon for a few thousand. Enough have been robbed of their engine.
But even a complete and nice 2.6 saloon may be cheap. Compare here: http://www.classic-auctions.com/Auctions/17-04-2013-ImperialWarMuseumDuxford-1341/1950Lagonda26LitreSaloon-35865.aspx a very nice (2.6) saloon with correct engine for 16k GBP !
Then I recommend to post at least some information like chassis number, engine number and description of the condition of the car, otherwise I would not recommend somebody interestet to leave his details.
Dear “Love lagonda”
you can advertise it here for free (photo, description, price) or only photos and description and ask for best offers? At least we all are curious to see her. Or you use sites like prewarcar.com or carandclassic.co.uk.
I personally only would use a dealer or auction house if the internet did not work for you.
This auction was truely amazing. I watched the live stream on the internet. Instead of one auctioneer they had two speaking at the same time so creating more hectic and the feeling that the buyer has to rush. The asking price of one auctioneer was not always the same as the others..and they had good publicity before the auction: Lost treasures, found in a Chateau, Alain Delon…You never could sell such a rusty car found in your backyard for more than their estimate prices, but they managed to sell them at multiple of the estimate. Is it all the central banks money printing that people buy whatever they can get just to convert paper into something real?
I wonder who bought all these extreme project cars. For many cars I can not imagine that restoration is economical if you give it to professionals in Europe or US. May be in Russia? Or are there so many freshly retired around seeking a big project? Or were they bought as artwork rather than a restoration project?
When you check for some cars on the internet you can get a restored one at only a little higher price: best example a Citroen 5CV trefle sold for 23.8k EUR
The rotten Lagonda LG45 DHC sold for 97k EUR. http://www.artcurial.com/en/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=2651++++++36+&refno=10514412
A professional restoration of the Lagonda LG45, what will it cost 200k EUR ? Here is an example of a nice one that sold in summer 2014 for 117k GBP http://www.classic-auctions.com/Auctions/21-06-2014-RRECRockinghamCastle-1367/1936LagondaLG45DropheadCoupe-37843.aspxThe Maserati A6G Berlinetta sold for 2Mio EUR http://www.artcurial.com/en/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=2651++++++58+&refno=10514400
A perfectly restored one sold in 2013 for 1.6Mio USD http://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1955-maserati-a6g54-berlinetta/May be the Saoutchik Talbot Lago T26 SWB even that it sold at 1.7 Mio EUR may make sense economically. Let the restoration cost 500k. But such a car will win at Pepple Beach or similar and may sell for 3-5 Mio afterwards.
I really would like to know who all the buyers were
Hi David,
most important question will be: is the engine still in ?Dear Alan,
without personal experience: I would assume that 12 bolts and the ring machined so that it is centered without play should be good enough, then there is only shear force on the bolts, I don’t see any reason to shrink it on. May be this statement helps to start a discussion or to get confirmation.
By the way I love reading your book: Lagonda Journey – Fifty years of Vintage Motoring
Speed model with Semi-Sports body must at least be a rare combination. Especially as the Speed Model had a slightly different chassis which might cause a redesign of the body to fit. More probable that a speed model engine later was mounted in the car.
Arnold Davey in his book “2, 3 & 3 1/2 Litre in Detail” explains the development of the speed model on pages 46-63. It was presented first at the Brooklands fete in August 1927 (btw. nice photos from the Brooklands fete to be found here: http://www.austinharris.co.uk/event/lagonda-fete)
Arnold describes the changes to the engine (e.g. changes of oil supply) to make it capable of higher revs and chassis (moving the engine back by 150mm and the radiator directly above the front axle, different chassis side and cross members. These differences should make it possible to decide whether your car is a speed model or a 14/60 with speed model engine.
Armold also gives the following differences in technical data of the engine: compression 6.8 instead of 5.9, oil capacity 3 instead of 2 gallons, different valve timing (more overlap)I Fully aggree Laurence.
Just for completing the theoretical side: you could compensate the described effect of the larger cylinder by moving the connection point to the brake pedal closer to the pivot point.
But it is always better to save the original configuration
Dear Awini: Ratio of areas of the pistons is the ratio of the diameters to the square, so you will have 1.44 fold area and you will have to press 1.44 fold harder for the same brake effect, but at the same time with less pedal travel. The new master cylinder must allow at least 70% of the travel of the old one.
Why do you want to change?Dear Stewart,
the body of this car looks far to good to me to destroy it for a special and I think it is not especially the Germans and Belgians who build the V12 specials. I bought mine (deVille Saloon body) 11 years ago at auction (different price level though at that time). I was lucky with my purchase. Nothing bad lurking, but this was luck no proof by restauration papers.
But I am also curious to hear if one of you knows more about things lurking beneath this bonnet