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Dear Lagonda aficionados,
I am hoping to have this car passed on to me next spring/early summer. At present I do not have registration details but I believ the car to be very similar to this Bonham’s auction vehicle: http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19288/lot/468/.
Differences include only one spare wheel. 21″ wheels in place of 18″. No second windscreen. Also Headlamps mounted on horizontal bar across Rad front.
My question is: How to tell what engine it has? The car is firmly believed to be a speed model. In due course I shall be able to post pics of the engine but for now does anybody know of a speed variant of semi-sports tourer and how to identify such?
Thanks
GrahamHi Graham,
I look forward to seeing pictures of the car. There are a number of details which will give clues as to whether it has a speed model engine. It should have 21 inch wheels.
Nice cars
Colin M34
Speed model with Semi-Sports body must at least be a rare combination. Especially as the Speed Model had a slightly different chassis which might cause a redesign of the body to fit. More probable that a speed model engine later was mounted in the car.
Arnold Davey in his book “2, 3 & 3 1/2 Litre in Detail” explains the development of the speed model on pages 46-63. It was presented first at the Brooklands fete in August 1927 (btw. nice photos from the Brooklands fete to be found here: http://www.austinharris.co.uk/event/lagonda-fete)
Arnold describes the changes to the engine (e.g. changes of oil supply) to make it capable of higher revs and chassis (moving the engine back by 150mm and the radiator directly above the front axle, different chassis side and cross members. These differences should make it possible to decide whether your car is a speed model or a 14/60 with speed model engine.
Armold also gives the following differences in technical data of the engine: compression 6.8 instead of 5.9, oil capacity 3 instead of 2 gallons, different valve timing (more overlap)Peter,
Thanks for that splendidly clear explanation. That is really helpful. I my have some more information after my visit on Friday.
GrahamPeter S30 wrote: Speed model with Semi-Sports body must at least be a rare combination. Especially as the Speed Model had a slightly different chassis which might cause a redesign of the body to fit. More probable that a speed model engine later was mounted in the car.
Arnold Davey in his book “2, 3 & 3 1/2 Litre in Detail” explains the development of the speed model on pages 46-63. It was presented first at the Brooklands fete in August 1927 (btw. nice photos from the Brooklands fete to be found here: http://www.austinharris.co.uk/event/lagonda-fete)
Arnold describes the changes to the engine (e.g. changes of oil supply) to make it capable of higher revs and chassis (moving the engine back by 150mm and the radiator directly above the front axle, different chassis side and cross members. These differences should make it possible to decide whether your car is a speed model or a 14/60 with speed model engine.
Armold also gives the following differences in technical data of the engine: compression 6.8 instead of 5.9, oil capacity 3 instead of 2 gallons, different valve timing (more overlap)Hi Graham
As usual with Lagondas, it is more complicated. For example the 14/60 was renamed the “2 Litre Standard Model” around 1928. What year is the car you are viewing?
My HC speed model is August 1927 so is one of the first – perhaps sold at the August 1927 Lagonda Fete shown in the photos.
I have seen speed models with 14/60 engines put in and vice versa. Good luck with your visit. I can’t wait to see the pictures….
Colin M34
Hi Peter, Colin,
I am now pretty sure that the car is a fairly standard 14/60 semi tourer. It was first registered in Wimbledon on 10th March 1927. Chassis OH8643, Engine OH386. I am increasingly thinking it was the standard engine. Oil capacity of 2 gal has been mentioned. Originally believed to be Maroon. Complete history except 1937-45 and possibly one owner between 1958 and 1964. On the engine side it is good except for some valve-seat recession. I shall need to attend to that next summer. Any advice on where to get valve seat inserts done appreciated. Does it even need a specialist or can my local engineering workshop do it? (I live near Canterbury)
More posts to come about upholstery and painting.
Graham.Hi Graham,
Sounds great. One of the most correct 14/60s seems to be the one that was being sold by Robin Lawton. See the excellent set of photos can be seen at: http://www.robinlawton.com/cars/1926%20Lagonda%2014%2060/1926%20Lagonda%2014%2060.html
I love the Vee windscreen early models.
Colin
Colin,
Yes the split screens do make them look very 1920s. I forgot to add the registration no. PF 8334. The leather is less good than the example you mention but I am to receive sufficient Connolly hides with which to restore it. It is generally un-molested as far as I can tell. It comes complete with new double duck hood and earlier side-screens.
GrahamPF 8334 is a very nice registration number. My 12/24 was sold around November 1925 and was PE 7073, and both were registered with Surrey County Council. Presumably after they had worked through all the PE numbers they started on PF so there is a a good sequence here. Many period photos of Lagonda show PD,PE, PF and PG numbers, and of course the Fox and Nichol M45 team cars are BPK.
My HC 2L speed model chassis number is OH 8772 and was registered in August 1927 and is 129 cars away from this 14/60. This suggests they would have been selling cars at a rate of about 20 per month at this time, though of course not all would have been registered in Surrey.
I’m sure Lagondas had a very good relationship with Surrey County Council where I guess the office in Kingston pre-allocated blocks of these numbers. This would have made life simpler for them and is great for us because we know at a glance that PF 8334 is March 1927. The Robin Lawton Car was first registered as PF6601 on 11th January 1927 so they make a great pair.
Cheers Colin
I’m not sure that Kingston would have pre-allocated blocks of reg nos to Lagonda, although I know this practice applied for dealers. My July 1939 LG6 is JPB235, and December 1940 V12 is JPH403. My uncle coincidentally owned a V12 Rapide in the 50s registered JPH126…there are perhaps a couple of other JPH reg Lagondas but not remotely consecutive. The Lancefield bodied V12 was fairly late registered, and that is JPG492, so I don’t think there is much evidence to say Lagonda had blocks of reg nos to use. Perhaps they did in the 20s as production levels were higher then.
Laurence
Hi Laurence
I agree with your thoughts. Perhaps in the 1920’s most cars were sold directly from the factory, so Kingston issued blocks of reg nos to Lagonda on demand. Things were altogether more relaxed in the 1920’s and perhaps by the mid/late 30’s they had to give up this practice.
By the way a lot of Frazer-Nashes and ACs also have PE numbers as well.
Colin
Hi Colin,
Frazer Nash…built in Kingston
AC….built in Thames Ditton (where I used to live, and could see the factory grounds, latterly built over with appalling modern housing).
Also HRG….built in Tolworth
British Salmson…I believe built in Raynes ParkI think there is a perception that cars were only built in the Midlands….sad to think that there was actually quite a spread of motor manufacturing in the South East, now just a fading memory.
Post war you could point to racing car manufacture…Cooper in Surbiton, Connaught at Send, near Woking….talking of which, McClaren is at Woking so there is some link there!
Laurence
And please dont forget (although it usually is) Alta in Surbiton both pre war and also after the war !!!
At long last the picture of PF8334, now in my possession.
GrahamPictures – 2nd attempt
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