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I’ve found vinegar is pretty good at dissolving rust, even heavy deposits. Leave immersed a couple of days, check, and repeat as necessary. Some provisos. Firstly, the vinegar will attack plating if it is poor, or in poor condition. As the metals are dissimilar, there is a possibility of electrolytic action. Due to guests staying I overlooked checking a copper brake pipe with wound steel wire protective covering. After 5 days, the steel had disappeared …. Hmmm, that could be a result for you….
LaurenceHi Roger,
Could be a problem on the low tension side. Poor connection, corrosion etc. Specifically in the ignition circuit, as if the engine is spinning over as fast as it normally does, one must presume that the heavy current starter circuit terminals are sound. If starter speed is slower, check those terminals as well. Try running an earth connection from the magneto to the engine block.
Good luck!
LaurenceHi Ted,
You need a pin spanner/wrench for that. You might get away with using a hammer and punch, provided you accept there’s a fair possibility of damage to that “plug”. That said, if you are replacing the plug with a rev counter drive, damage to the plug is less of a concern. A suitable pin spanner could be made fairly easily with basic equipment. Find four screws that fit snugly in the holes in the plug, make a template accurately transferring the hole position in the plug. Then find a suitable piece of steel of adequate thickness and length, drill and tap for those screws, using your template to accurately match the plug hole positions, screw the screws in so that they protrude slightly more than the depth of the holes in the plug … and voila! You have your pin spanner. It’s not something you are likely to be able to buy ready made. All this said, if it’s really tight, bearing in mind it has probably never been undone since 1930 odd, you might need to at least get it started with that hammer and punch.
LaurenceHi Ted,
Just to add confirmation. My version of this engine is the sanction 4 type, in my LG6, so even more recent! The large threaded hole in Adrian’s final photo is also where my rev counter drive emerges; your photos show that you have a circular plug with four dimples for removal by a pin-drive spanner in that location. Note that on Adrian’s and my engine, there is a threaded boss for a bolt to presumably lock the brass drive adaptor in place.
Your mystery component appears to include a tap handle. I would opine that it is for a water take-off, perhaps for a heater? Is this engine original to your car? If not, be aware that these Meadows engines were used in many other applications, eg buses, tanks, marine. Whilst the basic engine would be the same, there would be differences incorporated specific to the intended application. Such engines were available, sometimes still unused and crated, until fairly recently, and were a ready and cheap alternative to rebuilding an original engine. Alternatively, parts from such engines could be incorporated as part of a rebuild. or example, I’ve discovered that the water pump on my engine is actually the marine version, with a bronze cover plate.Laurence
Usual strange American earlier dating of cars; the saloon is 1939, not 1938, and the dhc is 1940, not 1939. Makes one wonder how accurate the rest of the blurb is!
Well, no-one shared their knowledge here, so perhaps I’m the first to attempt these extremes of bumper dismantling. Fortunately I can now answer my own question.
It may have helped that I dismantled these with the bumpers dismounted from the car, and laying flat. This would have relieved the end scroll bolts of the not inconsiderable weight of the bumper blades.
I sprayed freeing oildown the sides of the bolts under their heads, twice.leaving it to soak in a day or so each time. With just 4 bolts to unscrew, I found that I needed 3 different spanner sizes to undo them! Two of those bolts had the wrong thread. Whatever, as with any tight fitting, ensure you use a close or tight fitting spanner or socket, to save rounding the head. Despite my concern, all four bolts undid relatively easily. In fact, at least one fitting still showed signs of grease, evidence of considerate reassembly by the previous reassembler … even if he did use the wrong bolts.
With the mounting brackets out the way I could now see the inner surface of the bumper end caps, and no evidence of a thread, so assumed an interference fit. I used the tapered ends of a pair of 18″ tyre levers, and the handle of a 1/2″ ratchet drive as a fulcrum, as close to the end scroll as possible. The end of the scroll is cut away for the mounting bar, and this cut edge provides a perfect surface to lever against. Even using 18″ levers, it took a substantial push on the end to uncurl the scroll fractionally enough to relieve their grip on the caps. I was able to pull one out fairly easily, the others needed a bit of help with a thin bladed screwdriver to start them moving. I had to be very careful with one, as I could see the bumper blade was cracked right through from one bolt hole to the upper edge of the blade. So I kept an eye on the crack as I levered, and fortunately saw no movement/opening of the crack. Incidentally, these caps consist of a fairly thin steel pressing, covered on the visible surface by a swaged on cap of very thin stainless steel. So do not attempt driving these out with a punch; the result would undoubtedly be an unwelcome blemish.
So there you have it; how to fully dismantle your bumpers!
Laurence
Hi Mike,
Managed to get over to look at the V12 today. I can see the clutch operating linkage, but can only say what I can see has no similarity to the the release bearing on my Riley. Perhaps someone who has dismantled a V12 or LG6 clutch assembly will advise.
LaurenceHi Mike,
You’re welcome. Unfortunately I’ve never dismantled an LG6 / V12 clutch assembly, so can’t be definitive. I can say that many years ago, at an autojumble at Biggin Hill, I was astounded to discover a new old stock Borg & Beck clutch plate for LG6 and V12. I gave this to the guy who rebuilt my V12’s mechanics, only to get it back as he’d forgotten it and fitted a new one. He also returned the original, which was worn down just to the rivets, despite which I don’t recall it slipping.I’m assuming we’re talking about the same part? By thrust bearing I’m assuming you intend what I’d refer to as the clutch release bearing, the component which bears against the sprung facing of the cover plate to withdraw the drive plate, thus freeing the clutch plate.
So new driven plates are out there. This one carries the B & B part number 40249, and I guess dates to the early 1950s as the leaflet inside lists clutch parts for cars of that era. If it helps, the box states 11″ facings, and that it also fits … Commer Q2,Q3, Q4 Diesel 1939/49, Humber Snipe 1938, Guy Otter 4-5 Ton 1936/45, Karrier CK3 674 Series 1947/52. Whether thathat might help in sourcing other clutch components, I don’t know.
I have the floors etc out of the V12 so I’ll have a look at that later. I do have clutch parts for my 1951 Riley RMB available to photograph, which may be similar.
Laurence
Hi Michael,
Clutch thrust bearings on cars of this era were usually a pressed in graphite ring. Your car may have been modified to take this bearing, furthermore if original, I’d expect to see it was made by R & M, ie Ransome & Marles. The advantage of the graphite ring is that it is of course self-lubricating.
LaurenceHi Mark,
Frustratingly I’ve just also proved the “in Detail” bit isn’t really true, having searched the book in vain for photos of the V12’s front shock absorber adjusters! As an aside, I’ve just looked through the original M45 road tests I have. These show drawings (not always reliable, the V12 chassis drawing doesn’t bear much similarity to the cars as produced) of the bulkhead area viewed from the front, but only the SU pumps to be seen in that area.
If you can wait, surely an M45 with the correct can will turn up at the Annual Gathering.
LaurenceMy copy not immediately to hand, but Arnold Davey’s relevant “Lagonda in Detail” book might well have a photo illustrating this area and correct pattern oil can.
LaurenceHi Mike,
No need to remove the gearbox, you just need to move it back a little, perhaps just half an inch. The propshaft telescopes, so no need to work on that. The forward end of the gearbox is mounted on rubber bushes in aluminium castings via a through bolt. Don’t unbolt that, remove the bolts holding those castings to the chassis. You will probably find there are red fibre shims between these castings and the chassis … ensure those don’t get damaged and that they are noted for original positioning. The left hand aluminium casting is inadequate in service, and often found to be broken.
The rear gearbox mounts are simply a vertical bolt each side; look out for washers serving as shims and note for original positioning. These front and rear mounting bolts enter accurately drilled holes in the chassis, so provided you ensure all shims as mentioned are replaced in their original positions, alignment should be precisely retained. The cardan shaft has a spike at each end; the purpose of this is that, if the flexible coupling shears, the shaft will not flail dramatically, but be retained within the spider. The downside of this safety arrangement is that the spike will not disengage until the gearbox is moved rearwards. It follows that you only need to move the gearbox enough to disengage that spike.
So unbolt the flexible couplings first. The gearbox is (naturally!) extremely heavy, and a trolley jack would be ideal for moving it, but if you’re strong enough you should be able to move it by hand. I’ve attached a reduced photo of the spike in situ, but I’ll email it to you separately, with others that may help. As my LG6 is a special, the entire gearbox etc is easily rendered visible!
At least, if it proves necessary, you should have reasonable access for removing the clutch cover and driven plate, no bell housing being in the way.
The firewall plaque always states the engine number as the chassis number[ the true engine number is, as you’ve found, stamped on the engine. The body number is stamped, scratched or pencilled on pretty well every body component. If you’ve removed the seats, if like my V12, you’ll find it pencilled on the metal runners screwed to the base of the seat, so should be visible simply by turning a seat upside down. The easiest place to find it should be on the inner face of the actual (ie right hand side) spare wheel cover, between the catches. If like my V12, you should also find it scratched into the underside of the little chrome trim plates attached to the end of the hood frame members. If no joy, let me know and I’ll investigate other locations.
LaurenceHi Mike,
Sorry to hear of your trouble; breaking the starter armature must have resulted in some choice language! Assuming you didn’t use extreme force removing it however, it must have been near the point of failure anyway, so as well it occurred in your garage.Regarding the clutch, the symptoms you describe can sometimes be resolved by adjusting the clutch pedal setting to the factory specification. So check that and adjust first. If the problem is still evident, get someone to operate the clutch pedal up and down, whilst you check each part of the linkage for inappropriate movement or seizure.
To remove the cardan shaft, you will need to remove the gearbox mounting bolts and move it backwards. No more than an inch; just enough to enable the safety spike on the cardan shaft to disengage it. ESSENTIAL: mark the cardan shaft flexible couplings and spiders for identical reassembly, and ensure all the bolts, washers and nuts attaching them are returned to their original positions. Failure to do this could well result in unwanted driveline vibration.
The gear lever tower is no problem at all. The casting is held down by four bolts; remove those, and the entire assembly lifts away. There are locating dowels, so re-engagement is easy. Do not loosen, remove or adjust the operating fingers.
Let me know if more advice needed. Perhaps I can take this opportunity to state that I’d still like to know the body number of your drophead! Email me if you prefer; the number will be a four digit number commencing 75.
Laurence
Hi Colin,
Glad you also like the table.
It could be, but I suspect it’s burr walnut. Bought this table for ?30 over here in France at a charity sale. It’s a lovely thing, with turned brass feet and ormolu mounts at the top of the legs, plus quite complicated inlaid stringing. Unfortunately the top has been abused with a fair chunk of veneer missing, and although it opens out, there are no leaves to insert. Probably why it was so cheap, but I couldn’t resist it at that price!
Laurence
Hi Peter & Bruce,
Here are pictures of the pedals from my V12. Here you can see a complete original, the other original disassembled, and replacement rubbers I bought probably in the early 1980s.
As can be seen, the replacements have threaded steel studs for fixing. One can see traces of perished rubber on the reverse side of both pedals, so the original fixing was either via a pair of mushroom head shaped mouldings on the rear of the rubbers; or that the rubbers were literally cast hot onto the pedals.
The rubbers were not flat at the back, but had a triangular section bulge which mates with a depression in the bronze pedal casting. This bulge has detached from the original pedal rubber, and can be seen still in situ in the pedal. You can see the bulge in profile on the pedal rubber sitting sideways at the top of the second photo.
Hope this helps.
Laurenceps … Bruce, you need to look at other V12s! A distinguishing feature between the visually similar LG6 and V12 is that, on the V12, the horns are hidden behind the “bosoms” of the front apron. On the LG6, there is some rather awkward panelwork which has the trumpet section of the horns exposed, with the domed section hidden.