Forum Replies Created
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The Bonhams NP auction estimates are renowned for their studied inaccuracy. They are no more than a ‘tongue in cheek’ tease and are almost always wide / very wide of the mark. As an attendee for some years now, I can tell you that this is something always ‘tutted’ about over the (rather excellent) bacon or sausage butties available to the punters for modest remuneration. 🙂
Of course, the whole world of ‘NP auctions’ is almost entirely unreal, in my experience. The sums achieved very often seem to be out of this world. The problem, among several, caused by all of this is that owners and trade sellers alike, for months after every such auction, try their damnedest to get comparable money for their car. They fail, almost always, to manage this – which only goes to ‘feed in’ to factors and feelings as each new NP auction approaches. Happy days. 😀
“Beautiful shape, drop dead gorgeous imho as are all post-war Lagonda’s!”
Oh yes indeed!!! 😀
Not for me either Simon, I can assure you. But, so long as potential buyers go into the thing with their eyes open, and they have the resources to do the job properly, I’m sure that the car will be a delight for them.
T
Simon,
The late Captain Foreshaw was the doyen of the DB Lagondas and pre-DB4 Astons and certainly knew his onions, and his Lagondas. And, it is certainly true that the 2.6 litre engine is structurally stronger than 3 litre because, as you may know, in order to achieve the increase in capacity the bores were staggered in the block.
The problems with this car, obviously, are the issue of non-original 2.6 litre engine, the structural integrity of the body, the poor paint, and the loss of the original index number. However, if someone is prepared to put the time, effort and money required into the car I’m sure the car will be a joy to own. And, it looks as if it can be done a rolling restoration too, which is a boon.
Regards,
Tim
Peter,
I agree with all that you say. As I’ve said in another thread, I’m not aware of any 2 door saloons having been converted to a DHC – indeed, until a post on this forum I’d never heard it said before. There is, as you say, a terrible car ‘out there’, still with a trader I think, that is two saloons rammed together to make a DHC ‘replica’. Yuk!
The listing is full of inaccuracies, of course. This seller appears to me to be the usual sort of ‘chancer’ into whose hands our cars have all too often fallen in the past, sadly. However, I’m hopeful that the rise in values in recent years will assist us in this regard in the future.
Regards,
Tim
Hi Simon,
Thanks for posting – well spotted.
The engine number given, quite obviously, is a 2.6. It doesn’t match the number in the records I have to hand either (for good measure). Mention in the listing of a misalignment of the door bottom speaks volumes. This is a classic sign of rotten sills and possibly/probably (take your pick) A posts too.
A nice rolling restoration though, albeit that it will never be ‘right’.
Regards,
Tim
Guys,
It may be of interest that, in my collection of automobilia, I have a letter dated 11 June 1954 sent by James Stirling (then ‘Resident Manager’ of the ‘Lagonda Division’ of ‘The David Brown Corporation (Sales) Limited’) to Lens Automobiles of Buffalo NY. Apparently, the proprietor of that firm had a customer who, already very happy with his Aston Martin DB 2-4, was interested in ordering a 3-litre Lagonda Coupe.
In partial reply to the enquiry, Mr Stirling wrote; “While it is our intention to make a central gearchange available, we do not intend to produce the Lagonda with left-hand drive.”
By the way, what may very well be the same two 2.6 litre cars mentioned by Tony (one a DHC and the other a saloon, both in a very poor state) were offered for sale and sold on ebay last year (reputedly going to a collector in Germany).
Tim
Simon,
I agree with some of your points but, with all due respect, disagree with others. But, perhaps your researches have turned up information of which i am unaware. I’d be very interested to hear more of what you may have found.
For myself, I haven’t come across anyone more keen to buy a 2 door saloon than, say, a 4 door Mark 2 car. It does seem to be a fact that more of the 2 door cars are in the hands of LC members who, naturally, have lavished care upon their cars and prefer them over other options. However, I do not regard the LC as (yet) the natural home of DB Lagonda owners (sad to say, perhaps, but still true in my view). By the way, I know of only one drop head created in recent years and that dreadful car was created from two 4 door cars (and deservedly it has stubbornly failed to sell in the hands of multiple traders)
Equally, I haven’t seen any ‘nice condition’ saloons in the kind of price bracket you speak of in recent years. A few really good cars have changed hands – mostly for circa double the upper bracket you mention. This is precisely because so many of the 4 door cars were savaged as you suggest. The 2 door cars were also culled, but not to quite the same degree – for two reasons. One is the aforesaid tendency in past years for LC members to prefer (and therefore save) the 2 door cars. The other is that the 4 door Mark 2 cars have floor change boxes and were more plentiful.
I am very much aware of the story behind the DB Lagonda graveyard in 1990s. I’m afraid to say that such was not the finest hour of some of the people concerned. All of this is just one of the reasons why I have been less than impressed by the conduct of some of the so-called aficionados of the post-war Lagondas in the LC. I’d better leave my commentary there, I think.
Put shortly, I stand by estimation of the way things are currently.
The 3 litre DHCs have had a strong following for some time now, and that is and has been reflected in the sums achieved in sales etc.. By the way, if you can find a ‘very good’ DHC at ?50k these days (as you state) you are a better man than I, Gunga Din.
Good 2 and 4 door cars are worth more or less the same sort of sum (see my earlier comments). The good / very good cars that come on the market least often are to my knowledge, as I’ve said before, the 4 door Mark 2 saloons. And, just watch the prices soar when they do appear.
Regards,
Tim
Colin (and gentlemen),
Thank you all so very much for your kind assistance. Now I know what I have, which is great. If only I had a car to put it in! Never mind. :
I will be selling it soon, if anyone is interested.
Regards to you all,
Tim
Thanks a lot Julian. Much appreciated. By the way, Colin mentioned that the serial number might mean that the engine was (at least) destined to go into a Speed Model car, even if it may be open to question, as you suggest, whether it ever got there.
Regards,
Tim
Thanks very much Lagonda33. Very interesting observations and kind of you to post them. I don’t know which car the engine came from originally, although the well-known LC member I mentioned earlier may have the details.
Hi Colin,
Thank you so much for taking the trouble to consider this for me. Here are some more snaps, which I hope will do the trick. The engine was run for a number of years in the car of a well-known LC member, before he replaced it with the correct SC engine circa 7 years ago (as i understand it). That’s about all the information I have.
Regards,
Tim
Hi Colin,
Thanks for your reply. Here is a photograph.
Regards,
Tim
it’s definitely not an original or a copy of a DB handbook (I think I have examples of them all i.e. 2 x versions of 2.6, 1 x version 3 litre, 1 x temporary 3 litre, 1 x Rapide).
I believe that it is a copy of the LG45 handbook made by the Lagonda Club post war. To assist the reader, the creator seems to have stuck in a label, giving up to date company contact details (post war, post David Brown), over the original Staines address details.
Hi Simon,
This is just my personal impression…..
Current values of these cars (all models) are still quite tricky to assess. Until recently, all of them – including the DHCs – were worth very little in relative terms unless in top-notch condition.
Now, things have changed. The market has woken up to the fact that these cars have been hugely undervalued historically. Having said that, I think that there are still bargains to be had – principally because this news hasn’t yet filtered through to some (otherwise) educated traders. But, this happy state of affairs won’t continue for much longer, in my estimation – weeks and months rather than years.
So, values….
Basket cases, where the wreck has been savaged, can still be picked up for a few hundred pounds (as we have discussed elsewhere).
Complete good projects that are not roadworthy are probably worth, say, circa ?12-20k for 2 and 4 door saloons and ?15-22k for DHCs.
Roadworthy projects (those that I refer to as rolling restorations) are the most sought after cars. They used to be relatively easy to find, principally because the cars are expensive to restore properly and values kept such activity to a minimum. Current values are perhaps the most difficult to assess in respect of this category of car. I think that 2 and 4 door saloons are, perhaps, worth in the region of ?20-30k (with a few thousand more for the Mark 2 cars). An untidy but good usable DHC in unmolested condition is probably worth ?25-40k. You’re real problem will be finding one. It is also my impression that the market is strong (i.e. people are looking actively) and values continue to rise.
Values rise sharply with the last category. Very good cars do come on the market fairly regularly these days (albeit that there are not many of them overall, for the obvious reason of rarity to begin with) and are now making good money. For example, at last year’s NP Bonhams auction a pretty 2 door saloon made (IIRC) circa ?48k (with buyers’ premium). This year, I’d add 10-15% for the same car. It was not perfect (paint average, items of trim (interior/exterior) either missing or wrong materials used, and few mechanical parts missing) but was otherwise in a nice ‘restored’ condition. On-line, you can find restored/good/very good 3 litre 2 door and 4 door / Mark 2 saloons for all sorts of sum – the bracket of asking price seems to be wide – circa ?50-80k+ (though, what sums are actually achieved is more difficult to ascertain).
Sorry this is all a bit vague but I hope it helps in some way.
Regards,
Tim