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These studs don’t need to be especially high tensile – they only have to hold the manifold on tight enough to stop it leaking.
My 2 litre has UNF threads here & there – head nuts for one. Some are marked UNF (not the head nuts I don’t think).
And of course there are UNC threads, which are almost all the same pitch as Whitworth, (one size is different – 11/16″ maybe?) but with a slightly different thread angle or profile.
You are assuming that you have 5/16 Whit studs (not 1/4!), but they could be 5/16 UNC for all you know. Frankly, after all they’ve been through I doubt it would make much difference which nuts you use!
I’m currently in America, where I have a few old cars, including a 1961 Corvette I’m currently rebuilding. GM make their cars out of heavy metal stampings & bent bits of metal held together with UNC bolts. It was such a pleasnt contrast to work on a properly engineered car like the Lagonda. Although I have to say the Chevy is a lot easier & quicker!Interesting – I think you mean you have 5/16 Whit studs, not 1/4 Whit; the confusion arises because Whitworth nuts used to be one size larger across flats than BSF. Then, I think it was in WWII, they ‘shrank’ the Whitworth nuts to the same size as BSF nuts, in order to save metal. Hence you have dual markings on spanners; 1/4W = 5/16 BSF etc. Except that this is no longer accurate either, since ‘modern’ 5/16 Whit and 5/16 BSF nuts are the same size across flats. That in itself is a very weird size, 0.513″ or some random figure like that.
Anyway, to return to your problem – presumably you have just been tightening the nuts on the (incorrect) threads, rather than pulling the manifold up tight against the block? In a way I’m surprised they still managed to work loose. If it were my car, I think I would try to rescue the threads on the studs if possible. Can you run a die-nut down the studs to retrieve a passable thread? Either BSF or Whit, whichever is most likely to work. Then get some long brass nuts & hope they will tighten up ok. If it doesn’t work, you’re only back where you are now anyway.
I’ve just had the job of drilling out all fourteen bolts that hold the water jacket side-plate on. The previous owner had started removing the steering box & dynamo to do this (it had corroded through) but sadly he did not live to complete the job. I pulled the engine out & did it at eye level.
I also had one of the exhaust studs snap off when I pulled the manifold, & I managed to drill it out ok. It had to be a top one too, right up against the cam housing, and I JUST managed to drill it straight by putting a drill bit in the chuck about 1/4″ deep and then the drill bit was JUST long enough to go in there before the chuck fouled the cam housing. It really needs an extra-long drill bit to do the job properly. I got away with it, but more by luck than judgement!I just had my manifold off to replace the water jacket cover plate. When I went to re-fit it, the lugs on the bottom of the manifold fouled the new aluminium plate, which stopped the manifold going fully home. This was easy to spot with the engine at eye-level, so I just ground a bit off the bottom of the manifold.
Unless you have replaced the side plate it is difficult to see how this could be your problem, but I thought I’d mention it.
Another long shot – I don’t suppose it’s possible that the new gasket is thinner & the nuts are bottoming out before pulling the manifold home?Having experimented with BRG, 2 shades of Deep Brunswick Green, Landrover Green and a few others, I found a tin marked ‘Green’ and another tin marked ‘black’, and two parts Green to one Black is just about spot on! Not too bothered at the moment – I’m just trying to touch in the chassis while the engine is out where the paint has chipped or fallen off. Under the existing green, everything seems to be white or off-white, but over the top of that, somebody has painted EVERYTHING green, even the clutch plates!
Funny thing, I normally hate green – most of my cars are bright red – but I looked at a red 3.5 litre and red just looks wrong on a Lagonda, whereas dark green looks just right.On the engine mountings, I thought those cups went underneath the chassis brackets – I’m sure that’s where I took them off from anyway!
Having experimented with BRG, 2 shades of Deep Brunswick Green, Landrover Green and a few others, I found a tin marked ‘Green’ and another tin marked ‘black’, and two parts Green to one Black is just about spot on! Not too bothered at the moment – I’m just trying to touch in the chassis while the engine is out where the paint has chipped or fallen off. Under the existing green, everything seems to be white or off-white, but over the top of that, somebody has painted EVERYTHING green, even the clutch plates!
Funny thing, I normally hate green – most of my cars are bright red – but I looked at a red 3.5 litre and red just looks wrong on a Lagonda, whereas dark green looks just right.On the engine mountings, I thought those cups went underneath the chassis brackets – I’m sure that’s where I took them off from anyway!
Thank you Colin – a typical example of Lagonda ingenuity. My favourite example is that lop-sided dog-bone that holds the spare wheel on. Such a clever & simple method of ensuring it never becomes detached!
But I still have no idea where the thermostat lives, or even how it is supposed to do what it does!
Thank you Colin – a typical example of Lagonda ingenuity. My favourite example is that lop-sided dog-bone that holds the spare wheel on. Such a clever & simple method of ensuring it never becomes detached!
But I still have no idea where the thermostat lives, or even how it is supposed to do what it does!
To reply to Dick Jones – thank you for the information about John Cherrett the previous owner. His four daughters were all at the auction, one of whom was sort of egging me on to bid much more than I ever intended, and I succumbed! All four girls have sort of ‘adopted’ me so that’s an unexpected spin-off!
John’s car would certainly feel at home here – I can barely get in my garage for Lagonda bits and other car stuff. The Lagonda itself is almost wedged up against the gate to my drive. There will be more room when I get the engine back in, but I’ve been delayed by a flurry of work which has taken me away from the Lagonda for a few days.
Drilling out those side-plate bolts is not something I would have wanted to attempt with the engine in situ. Little prospect of getting them all concentric I reckon.
The clutch linings were worn to the point where they needed replacing, but not completely shot. They would have held for a good while with stronger springs. Surprisingly, the springs were exactly the same length as their new replacements. One thing that did cross my mind – are modern clutch linings thinner than vintage linings? They look it. If they are, the clutch will effectively be weaker. We’ll see how she drives anyway.To reply to Dick Jones – thank you for the information about John Cherrett the previous owner. His four daughters were all at the auction, one of whom was sort of egging me on to bid much more than I ever intended, and I succumbed! All four girls have sort of ‘adopted’ me so that’s an unexpected spin-off!
John’s car would certainly feel at home here – I can barely get in my garage for Lagonda bits and other car stuff. The Lagonda itself is almost wedged up against the gate to my drive. There will be more room when I get the engine back in, but I’ve been delayed by a flurry of work which has taken me away from the Lagonda for a few days.
Drilling out those side-plate bolts is not something I would have wanted to attempt with the engine in situ. Little prospect of getting them all concentric I reckon.
The clutch linings were worn to the point where they needed replacing, but not completely shot. They would have held for a good while with stronger springs. Surprisingly, the springs were exactly the same length as their new replacements. One thing that did cross my mind – are modern clutch linings thinner than vintage linings? They look it. If they are, the clutch will effectively be weaker. We’ll see how she drives anyway.Thanks – where would I look for a thermostat?! I haven’t come cross one yet! It has an electric fan fitted, so I suspect all was not well with the cooling (aside from all the aluminium bits reverting to their powdered state!).
Engine, clutch etc all back together & hopefully going back in the car tomorrow. Then we’ll see what’s what! I just noticed, jut before I put the head back on, that the front bore has a couple of lumps out of it, & gouges running down the bore from them. They are fore & aft, so probably gudgeon pin related, and historic (I hope!). I’m surprised I hadn’t noticed them before, but the bores are all good otherwise. Bit of a gap on no.3 rings, as it leaves a 1/16″ to 1/8″ streak of oil down the bore when you turn the engine over. I ran the engine for a few minutes prior to dismantling, & there were no nasty noises, just timing chain rattle (not surprising, as the chains were very slack) and valve clatter. I’m going to ignore the gouges for now & see what happens. Ever the optimist 😉
Thanks – where would I look for a thermostat?! I haven’t come cross one yet! It has an electric fan fitted, so I suspect all was not well with the cooling (aside from all the aluminium bits reverting to their powdered state!).
Engine, clutch etc all back together & hopefully going back in the car tomorrow. Then we’ll see what’s what! I just noticed, jut before I put the head back on, that the front bore has a couple of lumps out of it, & gouges running down the bore from them. They are fore & aft, so probably gudgeon pin related, and historic (I hope!). I’m surprised I hadn’t noticed them before, but the bores are all good otherwise. Bit of a gap on no.3 rings, as it leaves a 1/16″ to 1/8″ streak of oil down the bore when you turn the engine over. I ran the engine for a few minutes prior to dismantling, & there were no nasty noises, just timing chain rattle (not surprising, as the chains were very slack) and valve clatter. I’m going to ignore the gouges for now & see what happens. Ever the optimist 😉
Well, that was interesting. I e-mailed CPA radiators late last night, and by 0730 this morning there was an estimate (?2,000 – 2,200) in my inbox. That was about half what I had previously been quoted.
Spoke to the people up there and they sound very good – they are very familiar with these cars and do all of Bishop Gray’s radiators for them apparently.
The plan is for me to run the car for the summer, then take the radiator up to them in Grantham, kick my heels for a few hours while they extricate the core from the shell, then I can sort the shell out while the make a new core, then do the same in reverse.
So thanks for the tip – I wouldn’t have found them otherwise.Thank you – I will try those people for the radiator. I’ve sent out requests to two companies for quotes & am waiting to hear back.
That advice is good for all clutches I think! I am a coach operator, and the vehicles I run have a 10 litre Cummins diesel at the back. They are renowned for eating clutches – in fact the last one I bought had needed a new clutch every six months till I bought it. I got fifteen years and 300,000 miles out of that clutch, and then it wasn’t worn out – the only reason I had to replace it was that the spigot bearing (a ball race) had run dry and was starting to drag. The linings would have been good for half a million I reckon.
I must say I was surprised to find the centre plate in my Lagonda in such good condition, although the linings were worn, but all nice & even.
PS Google never found these radiator people, so thanks!That extra 2 bhp is interesting. But where on the rev range was it? People always seem to talk about maximum power, but when do you ever need it unless you are going racing? What interests me more is what happens when you press the middle pedal at, say, 2,500 – 3,000 rpm. I can’t see that you air filter would make any difference till you hit peak airflow, which is not going to be at that speed.
You know those crazy hot-rod shops in America that will put a 1,000 bhp motor in a 1950’s saloon? One of them quoted the figure at the back wheel as 150 bhp less than at the flywheel! How do you ‘lose’ 150 bhp along the way? By that reckoning, most cars would barely be able to creep forward!Thank you – I didn’t believe this story about the steering column either! Apart from anything else, I found it surprisingly tricky to get that big clamp bolt (which I found in the door pocket!) back through the bracket and through the column. Nobody is going to do that on a routine basis.
Clearly the reason it was off was that the previous owner had started to remove the steering box to gain access to the 1/4″ bolts for the side plate, almost all of which were broken.
Seeing as the clutch needed doing also, I just hoiked the engine out which made the whole operation much easier.
Since then, like Ancient Mariner, I have been utterly becalmed. Foiled by the computer. Not the computer on the car, or course (thank God!), but the one that runs the Lagonda Club Spares dept. I had ordered various parts over the last few weeks, all of which arrived swiftly, but the big one – the one including the clutch – went AWOL. It had sent me an e-mail saying “Thank you – your order has been placed”, but it turns out it was bluffing. When I got that message I just thought Yippee that’s that, oblivious to the fact that I had neglected to enter my card details, as I discovered when I went back to the site to investigate.
Anyway, I remedied that, and double-checked that it said “Your order has been paid” .
Then I got an e-mail saying “Your order has been shipped”. Yippee I said. But it turns out the computer was bluffing again! I just spoke to a very apologetic human in Suffolk – apparently I had really upset the computer and it was now not talking to anybody. Not about my order anyway.
But now the human has given the computer a good talking to, and, fingers crossed, I should be back on the road in a few days.
The radiator, incidentally, has a big gob of araldite or similar in the middle of the core, but it’s not leaking noticeably so that’s how it’s going to stay till the winter. I got a quote for reconditioning the radiator, but it was over ?4,000, which strikes me as a lot.
I have read various accounts of people’s struggles replacing the clutch in situ, and I can see why. What I don’t understand is why people don’t take the engine out to do the job – makes it a doddle. The good news is that my clutch centre plate is perfect. I wouldn’t change the original design for a Borg & beck. Clearly the original design won’t stand for a lot of abuse, but the answer, surely, is not to abuse it?