• Hugo
    6 April 2018 at 14:14 #52720

    Greetings from new member Hugo Miller in Horsham West Sussex (UK). I have my eyes on a 2 litre coming up for sale at auction; reg no EWF 99; engine no. 6038/1/316; chassis no. 0H9745. I am told this car is known to the club, and I am trying to establish exactly what it is. The auctioneers say it started life as a 2 litre saloon (14/60 perhaps?), was converted to a pig wagon (as in porcines, not police!) and was ultimately re-bodied in the 1970’s by one Kenneth Pape as a four-seater tourer (T2 style?). This rebuild was featured in the Lagonda Club magazine in Summer of 1975.
    I am new to Lagondas (apart from a short brush with a 3.5 litre way back in the last century), and am trying to familiarise myself with all the various nuances of engine, chassis and body types.
    I have seen the car, and the body seems to have been very well constructed, and it looks right (to my un-trained eye, at least). The right hand water jacket is off (maybe missing?) and the toe-board is up, so it may be in for a new clutch. The engine does turn over (rather too easily for my liking – not a lot of compression by the feel of it) and it was apparently on the road until 2015. Now it just needs a bit of ‘re-commissioning’ as the salesmen like to say.
    So, is it a 14/60, 2 litre, HC or LC, Speed Model, or what? And what is the difference? I realise it is never going to win any prizes for originality, but it looks like a fun project that could be got running with a little work. I am feeling my way here, and would appreciate any advice.

    Mark
    6 April 2018 at 20:00 #52723

    Hi Hugo,
    If you are not a member of the Lagonda Club its worth joining as the website has information on the different model types and the club has an excellent spares service.
    There are no factory records for the 2 Litre as they were destroyed post-war but the club has records of known cars back to the early 1950s. Normally the body type will be shown on the chassis plate so T2 would show a T2 body…but this car does not have a T2 body. The type of body fitted looks like a high chassis car but it has a chassis number of OH9745 which may date it to late 1931 (my car was manufactured in Dec 1931 and has a number very close to this car)…..but the chassis and engine look much earlier.
    The car should probably have long wings which would be expensive to fabricate. It might be a bit of a marriage but if it sells within the guide price could be an interesting project.
    Doesn’t answer all your questions and an inspection by an expert would really be required to solve the puzzle but hope the above helps
    Best Regards
    Mark

    Hugo
    7 April 2018 at 00:09 #52725

    Thank you – I have just joined the Club. All I need now is a car! This one may be a bitsa, but it looks like a fun project. I’ll probably just jump in at the deep end as usual 😉

    Colin M34
    8 April 2018 at 18:23 #52727

    Hello Hugo

    EWF 99 is a known car.

    I think the auctioneers are correct that It was a 14/60 and spent time as a pig wagon before being rebodied in the style of T1 four-seater tourer.

    It is a special and always will be, but could be enormous fun and I feel this rather eccentric provenance has a certain charm in its own right.

    Colin M34

    Richard Branch
    9 April 2018 at 18:37 #52729

    Hello Hugo, if you “do” Facebok there’s a thriving Lagonda Owners Group with many knowledgeable people contributing. If you are not averse to FB it’s worth joining and asking the question. Not that I am trying to divert traffic away from this forum, indeed several of us are contributors to both.

    Colin M34
    9 April 2018 at 20:07 #52730

    Following on from what Richard said, we have just had an excellent dinner here in East Anglia at the weekend, with 56 members of the Lagonda Club and Rapier Register attending.

    Whatever car you have, you should find club members most convivial company and we always welcome new faces,with or without a Lagonda.

    M34

    Hugo
    12 April 2018 at 14:49 #52731

    Thanks for all the input – as luck would have it, there is a Lagonda meeting at Wisborough Green, just five minutes from me, on Saturday, but I’m in Florida right now so I shall miss it.
    But I will be back for the auction on the 27th, so we’ll see what that brings.
    In the meanwhile I shall check out the Facebook page.
    There was a 16/80 up for auction here at Fort Lauderdale last week – on German license plates for some reason – I was going to check it out but decided against it. It sold for $80,000 (I think that would be plus premium).

    Malc2L
    12 April 2018 at 20:37 #52732

    Hugo

    Firstly, welcome to the club – I’m down the road from you in Storrington and have a H/c 2L nearing completion that you’re welcome to come and look at sometime. I too am missing Wisborough Green as it clashes with VSCC Silverstone.

    Secondly, I went to look at EWF and communicated with the club and a previous owner. It is, as Colin says, a car with an interesting and cheerful history, but is far more of a bitsa than the auctioneers make out. As far as I can ascertain, it is made up from the remains of a post war bitsa (the pig truck) that in its last incarnation had a 14/60 chassis. At some point the chassis on it has been shortened by about 8″ or so too. The engine is a 14/60 but with correct twin carbs. The chassis plate does relate to a saloon but how much of that car is in it, is any bodies guess – it dates from an era when manky bits in scrapyards were passed around and any old bulkhead would do! The body is well built but does differ in detail in a myriad of ways from a correct one – which as i have found out is an expensive undertaking to make!

    Am presuming you have the members list so you should be able to look me up fairly easily if you want to get in touch

    Rgds

    Malcolm

    Colin M34
    14 April 2018 at 08:56 #52733

    I had a look at the 16/80 on the Fort Lauderdale auction and it seemed pretty correct. The chassis plate seemed to tie up with the photos. The car number is S10886 and the type is SWS.T7. It did indeed carry a T7 body and “SWS” refers to it having a Wilson gearbox.

    Take a look at https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/FL18/Fort-Lauderdale/lots/r0006-1934-lagonda-1680-s-type-special/544914

    With 10% buyer’s premium the car sold for the equivalent of around ?56,0000 so if it is as tidy in the flesh as it looked in the pictures, it was reasonably priced.

    Don’t forget that to a avoid a disaster with a 16/80, one should change the dural con rods for new steel ones. If this had already been done on this car, that would be a big plus.

    I wonder where it will next turn up?

    M34

    Hugo
    17 May 2018 at 11:56 #52765

    Well, I bought this old girl at the auction. I was prevailed upon by a rather pleasant young lady to bid a heck of a lot more than I had intended! Turns out it was her father’s car, whose estate this formed a part of (along with two vintage MG’s and an E Type in bits). And she has three equally delightful sisters, all of whom have sort of adopted me, so that is a bonus!
    There was one other phone bidder, who actually outbid me, but they hesitated a split second and the auctioneer dropped his gavel just as their hand went up. I’m trying to figure out which of the other three girls was the secret telephone bidder!
    Anyway, when I got the car home I filled the carburettors with fresh petrol, hooked up a battery (which meant taking the seats and entire floor out!), hot-wired the coil (it has a coil and a magneto), pressed the starter solenoid & she started right up. I managed to drive her round the block before parking up & getting stuck in.
    At present I have the engine out, to replace the clutch and to drill out all the 1/4″ bolts that held the right hand water jacket on and which the previous owner had snapped off. That bit is done, and I’m now waiting for the clutch & other bits.
    And I’d have waited a long time had I not checked and found that I had neglected to pay for the order! There is a quirk on the Club website that notifies you that ‘your order has been placed’ before you actually pay. I took that at face value, completely forgetting that I hadn’t entered my card details. I only noticed this oversight when I went to order some other parts today.
    Hopefully, when these bits all turn up I should be back on the road in a few days.

    Dick Jones
    21 May 2018 at 09:04 #52774

    Hi Hugo, sounds like it has gone to a good home. John used to attend our local VSCC meets but left when it clashed with his council meetings.
    I must say the auction write up is a bit unfair with ref to the dropping of the steering column. John called me over last year to discuss the 2 litre as corrosion had set in; the car hasn’t been on the road for some years now and these castings have a habit of corroding from inside out. He was looking at getting the radiator rebuilt as it lost water last time we were out in the cars together.
    Colin is correct in that it is a known car and came form a well known stable up north.
    Happy motoring…

    Hugo
    23 May 2018 at 09:51 #52781

    Thank you – I didn’t believe this story about the steering column either! Apart from anything else, I found it surprisingly tricky to get that big clamp bolt (which I found in the door pocket!) back through the bracket and through the column. Nobody is going to do that on a routine basis.
    Clearly the reason it was off was that the previous owner had started to remove the steering box to gain access to the 1/4″ bolts for the side plate, almost all of which were broken.
    Seeing as the clutch needed doing also, I just hoiked the engine out which made the whole operation much easier.
    Since then, like Ancient Mariner, I have been utterly becalmed. Foiled by the computer. Not the computer on the car, or course (thank God!), but the one that runs the Lagonda Club Spares dept. I had ordered various parts over the last few weeks, all of which arrived swiftly, but the big one – the one including the clutch – went AWOL. It had sent me an e-mail saying “Thank you – your order has been placed”, but it turns out it was bluffing. When I got that message I just thought Yippee that’s that, oblivious to the fact that I had neglected to enter my card details, as I discovered when I went back to the site to investigate.
    Anyway, I remedied that, and double-checked that it said “Your order has been paid” .
    Then I got an e-mail saying “Your order has been shipped”. Yippee I said. But it turns out the computer was bluffing again! I just spoke to a very apologetic human in Suffolk – apparently I had really upset the computer and it was now not talking to anybody. Not about my order anyway.
    But now the human has given the computer a good talking to, and, fingers crossed, I should be back on the road in a few days.
    The radiator, incidentally, has a big gob of araldite or similar in the middle of the core, but it’s not leaking noticeably so that’s how it’s going to stay till the winter. I got a quote for reconditioning the radiator, but it was over ?4,000, which strikes me as a lot.
    I have read various accounts of people’s struggles replacing the clutch in situ, and I can see why. What I don’t understand is why people don’t take the engine out to do the job – makes it a doddle. The good news is that my clutch centre plate is perfect. I wouldn’t change the original design for a Borg & beck. Clearly the original design won’t stand for a lot of abuse, but the answer, surely, is not to abuse it?

    Mark
    23 May 2018 at 11:47 #52783

    Hi Hugo,

    The 2 Litre clutch is surprisingly robust as long as it is well maintained and not abused. However, there is one golden rule which I was told many years ago by the late great Phil Ridout…..”the 2 Litre clutch is either in or out, never slip the clutch” That is because the steel drive plate will quickly heat up and distort and then it will destroy the friction surfaces. I am not a fan of the modern clutch conversion, it is after all a vintage car we drive not a modern one!

    As regards radiator rebuilds I used the following company a few years back, they have done many 2 Litre rads

    http://cparadiators.co.uk/contact-us

    Hope this helps
    Mark

    Hugo
    24 May 2018 at 23:44 #52784

    Thank you – I will try those people for the radiator. I’ve sent out requests to two companies for quotes & am waiting to hear back.
    That advice is good for all clutches I think! I am a coach operator, and the vehicles I run have a 10 litre Cummins diesel at the back. They are renowned for eating clutches – in fact the last one I bought had needed a new clutch every six months till I bought it. I got fifteen years and 300,000 miles out of that clutch, and then it wasn’t worn out – the only reason I had to replace it was that the spigot bearing (a ball race) had run dry and was starting to drag. The linings would have been good for half a million I reckon.
    I must say I was surprised to find the centre plate in my Lagonda in such good condition, although the linings were worn, but all nice & even.
    PS Google never found these radiator people, so thanks!

    Hugo
    25 May 2018 at 13:00 #52786

    Well, that was interesting. I e-mailed CPA radiators late last night, and by 0730 this morning there was an estimate (?2,000 – 2,200) in my inbox. That was about half what I had previously been quoted.
    Spoke to the people up there and they sound very good – they are very familiar with these cars and do all of Bishop Gray’s radiators for them apparently.
    The plan is for me to run the car for the summer, then take the radiator up to them in Grantham, kick my heels for a few hours while they extricate the core from the shell, then I can sort the shell out while the make a new core, then do the same in reverse.
    So thanks for the tip – I wouldn’t have found them otherwise.

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