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At the most prestigeous classic car auction in the world, Bonhams Retromobile in Paris, which will be held on 23 January and which features a number of the most dazzling cars ever made (Bugattis, Alfa Romeos, Hispano Suizas, Bentleys etc.) there are also two Lagondas on offer; one is a magnificent 1936 LG45 drophead coupe (sensibly estimated at 140.000 – 180.000 Euros), the second, lot nr. 229, is described in the catalogue as a “1937 LG45 Rapide Tourer” which it is not. I find it quite surprising that Bonhams has advertised this car as such when in fact it was originally a 1937 pillarless Saloon which at some point received an (incorrect) 1935 replica F&N team car body . The estimate is the same as for the Coupe.
I saw that too. A list of correct chassis numbers for LG45 Rapides can e.g. be found in the Holthusen book. And a standard factory body LG45 Rapide looks a bit different..
But there is really an amazing list of nice cars to be auctioned and I will go there for a weekend (unfortunately I don?t have the money to buy one of those). Anybody else from this forum going there? send me a mail, would be nice to meet.
Actually the chassis nr. is quite allright, but if you look at the identification plate on the Bonhams website you will see that it says “Type LG45 SB3” which means that it was a saloon bodied car. (Not to be confused with the “S3” on the engine which means, quite correctly, that it is a sanction 3 engine).
The 1937 Rapide is not “a bit different” but totally different (and worth a fortune). Again, this is a (not very good) replica 1935 M45 team car body, incorrect for the car which is therefore highly unoriginal and I am surprised that Bonhams prints this falsehood without blinking an eye….
P.S. I cannot afford Holthusen’s book – but this case is clear even without consulting it.3 of the interior photos of the drophead are of a completely different car.
There is another LG45 drophead for sale at Godin Banks http://www.godinbanks.comInteresting discussion.
a “bit” different was meant ironically..
The Holthusen book (I bought it at ebay a few years ago – was not really expensive for this amazing book, about 150 EUR) lists the following numbers fo the 25 LG45 rapides originally built: 12140R-12144R, 12169R-12173R, 12201R-12205R, 12230R, 12234R, 12235R, 12244R, 12245R, 12247R, 12248R, 12266R, 12267R, 12277R. Some engine Numbers and the original registration numbers and dates are given too.
the three wrong dashboard images seem to be from the Bugatti type 57C with interesting pillarles 4-door body of the same auction
Because of the unfortunate tendency to demolish saloon cars and turn them into non-original Le Mans and Team cars, the saloons are now rarer than these replicas.
This particular car does not only have a rather poorly replicated body (just look at the side cut-outs) but it is also from the wrong period and the wrong type Lagonda. The 1935 M45 Team cars had this round rear end with the fin, while a 1937 LG45 Team car would have had a long pointed tail. Another giveaway is the fact that the gear lever is in the middle, while an original team car would have had it on the right.Bonhams have rectified the incorrect description of this car. That is to say, they made a faint attempt and could not have done it more inconspicuously. The entry for this car on their website is still as “1937 Rapide Tourer” and the completely incorrect description remains unaltered. All they have done is add a very brief note at the bottom which reads: “Lot Notice: This Lot was originally built in 1937 as a standard Lagonda LG45 with Pillarless Saloon coachwork. At some later stage it was adapted to resemble an M45 Fox & Nicholl Le Mans Team Car”.
I find it quite amazing that a reputable auction house like Bonhams, at one of the most prestigeous classic car auctions in the world, tries to hide the fact that this is a completely wrongly described car.Horrible website too. . . .
I do agree with David’s views on Bonhams description, they should be better informed and more knowledgeable. As a “steward” of a unique LG45 Saloon and and a 1936 LG45 four-seater Team Car replica – as near as I can to the 1936 model – I think that “demolishing a saloon to create a replica” can be a more complex issue than many make out. Certainly maintaing a saloon is much more demanding than a Replica – I can only say the Jackall system and variable damping suspension has been a real labour of love for me. Then I have to say my Replica is more fun to drive and she now is on the race circuit and upholds the Lagonda racing pedigree. Bernd Holthusen has given us a significant reference work, which put the 4.5 Litre cars on the map, which means that all of us can know the difference between a 1935 and 1936 Le Mans car and even better we can all tell the difference between a poorly executed replica (whatever the motivation may have been) and a good one. The Club is broad kirk, most of us dislike the “conveyor belt” of poorly executed replica’s which required a donor saloon to be sacrificed, in some cases a car which was perfectly serviceable, however we are better educated now and appreciate the quality of these previously underrated saloons and, I hope, the importance of the marque continuing to race. Therefore what should we say to the new owner of this Bonhams mongrel? I would suggest an warm welcome. As I say, a rather more complex issue. Stephen
Clearly Bonhams or anyone else for that matter must describe a car for sale as a replica if that is what it is. As to whether it is acceptable to turn saloons into replicas I feel depends on the circumstances. There was a lovely Derby Bentley Park Ward saloon body for sale on ebay before Christmas. It had been restored and then removed from the car. I was told the complete restored car had been auctioned a while before for around ?40,000. That is just plain wrong in my opinion. It is a different matter if the car has already lost its body, for whatever reason, in the past. You can’t wind back the clock. Where I think it is a shame is when the body is still mainly there but in bad condition. Personally I’d restore it to the original saloon but I can just about uderstand someone throwing the wrecked body away especially if you can sell the replica for more than the restored saloon.
I received the catalogue several weeks ago and alerted Bonhams who, in first instance, did not react. After several emails from me it was with great reluctance that someone from Bonhams finally contacted me and said that they would rectify it on their website (it was, of course, too late to rectify the catalogue) which they have, as I said – very inconspicuously. They obviously find it hard to admit a mistake. I then decided to share my views with you in this Forum.
Holthusen wrote a great book, sure, but it is ridiculously expensive and I don’t have it. I wish I did. But other books on Lagonda also point out the differences between a 1935 M45 Team car and a 1937 LG45 Team car. Seaton’s and Davey’s books gave me all the necessary data; this is not only the wrong body for a 1937 LG45 Team Car but it is also a poor replica.
Personally I agree with the view that there are no objections to bodyless cars being recreated as team cars (although they will never have the magic of an original), but to demolish a restorable saloon body to built some replica (which happens) I find reprehensable.
Far more interesting than this mongrel is the fabulous (and original) 1936 LG45 Drophead Coupe which will be auctioned just before it. I shall be at the auction and will report what both cars have fetched.Hi Oakley,
It’ll be interesting to hear your assessment of the drophead and just how original (or correct) it is. You can see from the photos it is missing the oil tank for the jacks (you can see the holes on the bulkhead where it should be). If you get the opportunity have a look underneath and take some photos. Shouldn’t the rear panel have a swage line along the edge above the rear wing and the base of the hood, or were some of them made without this?
I have been to a number of auctions in the UK where there was an LG45 lot and have generally been disappointed at the standard of the restored ones. I hope this one doesn’t disappoint.I shall be at the private preview the evening before and will have ample opportunity to take pictures.
However, I am not an LG45 expert so let me know what exactly it is that you want photographed and I will see what I can do.I’m no expert either but I have had a good look at quite a few.
Any underneath photos would be nice. In particular have a look and see if the original shocks and the jacks are there – easiest to see at the front by looking from under the front bumper. And whether the jack pump is there (in the left dummy wheel cover). Check the door fit too, they often don’t close very well and this one looks like it may have a problem there. Possible cause is rot in the hinge post. They can rot from the exposed bottom end upwards a surprisingly long way and make the bottom hinge loose.I do not quite see the point of taking pictures to check if this car is allright or not.
I am only prepared to photograph any details of the car that would enhance the general knowledge of this type of Lagonda.
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