Barbara20 March 2010 at 17:25 #47768
We are looking for a 16/80 body to fit to a high chassis. Does anyone have one?Colin M3421 March 2010 at 09:25 #47770
This is not enough information!
Many Lagonda bodies are interchangeable. I assume you are looking for a tourer body. These are referred to as “T1” through to “T9”. What year is your chassis, which model? “High Chassis” refers to 2 and 3 Litre cars, both “standard” and “speed” models, the bodies of which are not interchangeable.
Best idea is to let us know what lettering and numbers your chassis plate has, if you have one.
Colin M34oakley21 March 2010 at 18:56 #47771
16/80 tourers usually have the T7 body. These can be (and have been) fitted on low chassis 2 Litres. I am not sure if the T7 body can also be fitted to a high chassis – but I see no reason why not. However, this is not an original combination and I would be reluctant to do it.Colin M3421 March 2010 at 22:29 #47772
I need to elaborate on Hans? comments. Many 16/80s did not have T7 bodies.
When the 16/80 tourers came out it was contemporaneous with the last of the low chassis 2 Litres, which were called the ?Continental?. These were the first speed model Lagonda to have a fully panelled, as opposed to a fabric body, though earlier examples were always available to special order. The ?Continental? 2 Litre had a body designated ?T4? and had some special characteristics. For the 16/80 and 3 Litre, by 1932, fabric bodies were going out of fashion so they introduced the ?T5? body, essentially a fully panelled T2 body, which had first appeared in late 1930 on low chassis two litres.
For the 1933 model year the bathtub rear and was going out of fashion and Vanden Plas were commissioned in December 1932 to produce design number 1893 on a 16/80 chassis for the Scottish motor show. This car belongs to a friend of mine. It must have spurred Lagonda to produce their own swept tail body which was designated T6, still with the three doors of the T5 body. In late 1933 ? presumably for the motor show, they created the ?T7? body which had one large door on the nearside and a small door on the offside for rear seat passengers. This body also appeared on 3 litre and M45 cars. Actually, if one sees a T7 bodied 16/80 on its own, one can be fooled into thinking it is an M45, unless there is one standing alongside. In 1934 16/80s were selling well and so many carry this body style. The next development was the T8 body, broadly the same as T7 but with just two doors, one on each side. This was the first Lagonda tourer to have a door on the driver?s side and was current right up to bankruptcy in 1935.
As the low chassis (LC) 2 Litre model had been phased out by the time the T7 body came out, these bodies were never fitted as original. However the exception can prove the rule and perhaps somewhere an original T7 bodied 2 Litre might appear. Actually, to be precise it would be a 16/80 with the 2 Litre engine supplied instead of the Crossley unit and some of these do exist.
As original, all T7 bodied cars had long wings, as cycle wings were going out of fashion by 1933.
Bear in mind that bodies from T1 through to T8 all have the same mountings and so speed model Lagondas can be fitted with a different body and these were swapped whether high or low chassis.
It now gets complicated. In 1929 the first low chassis 2 Litre came out with a modified T1 body. These usually have the designation ?SML? ? Speed Model Low (Chassis). At the same time speed model Weymann saloons continued to use the high chassis (HC) chassis. These were designated ?LOH? and I had one registered March 1930 which was mostly high chassis though with a low chassis front axle and rear lowering blocks. The tell tale between HC and LC are the chassis cross members, so although a LC body will fit on an HC car, the floor will be slightly odd. 1930 cars can be quite unique.
More complications. HC and early LC 2 Litres had their radiators mounted on a cross member and when the blown 2 Litre came out, the radiator was moved forward and mounted on trunnions. This gave space for the blower and later accommodated the longer 6 cylinder engine of the 16/80. The necessitated a longer bonnet so if a T7 body is fitted to an earlier car, the bonnet must be shortened.
One car I used to own, chassis number LOH 9602, March 1930, had been originally fitted with the second series Weymann saloon body designated ?W2?. However these bodies did not last very well and when I got the car it had been fitted with a T7 body of car number SWS10499 ? a 16/80 from around November 1933. I was given to understand LOH 9602 received its T7 body in the 1940?s or 1950?s when owned by an RAF officer. Presumably the 16/80 had been crashed or scrapped. I disposed of the T7 body which is now on M45 chassis number Z10949, and replaced it with an original body from an HC 2 Litre chassis number SM9248.
In conclusion, the critical question is the number of the chassis and date which would then dictate the most appropriate body. A T7 body fitted to a high chassis would look most peculiar.
Hope this lot helps
Colin M34oakley22 March 2010 at 09:34 #47773
Thank you for the extensive lecture on Lagonda bodies. However, I had the idea (wrong maybe) that Barbara was talking about a tourer body that is different from the ones usually found on 2 Litres – without the bathtub rear.
Therefore I assumed T6 or T7. I repeat that they would probably fit a high chassis Lagonda but that it is an unoriginal match.
And by the way, my low chassis 2 Litre was sold by Lagonda in 1933 with a T7 body (also on the ID plate) which it still has.oakley22 March 2010 at 13:03 #47774
I forgot to mention – my 2 Litre, sold by Lagonda in 1933 with a T7 body, has cycle wings. It may have gone out of fashion around that time but it was still available if one so desired and on my car they were originally fitted.
Also my car is not a 16/80 with a 2 Litre engine. My car was a (un licensed) factory test car, chassis and engine date from 1930. Typical for Lagonda it wasn’t scrapped but, in 1933, slightly updated, given a new ID plate and sold with the latest T7 body (16/80 type which fits perfectly) and a new (1933) license plate.
The bonnets for 16/80 on the one hand and for 3 Litre and 4.5 litre on the other hand are different. These cars were all sold with T7 bodies but the 3 and 4.5 L have a longer bonnet with a few more louvres. No need to shorten the 16/80 bonnet to fit a 2 Litre.Colin M3422 March 2010 at 19:51 #47776
So dear readers, the plot thickens.
Remember that Lagonda salesmen were so keen on closing a sale that within reason, a customer could have what he or she wanted – or what the salesman could fob off on them! It sounds a though they were on absolutely top form when they persuaded the first owner of Oakley’s car to have his one, perhaps offering an excellent discount compared with a brand new 16/80 and maybe keeping quiet about it being a 3 year old chassis!
Perhaps as a development car it already had cycle wings but did not have a proper body, so it was a simple matter of taking a new T7 body from stock. It would have fitted well and presumably the customer was well pleased with his purchase.
These were all hand built, individually specified cars, and I feel that one of the pleasures of playing with Lagondas is coming across individual cars which are different from the rest.oakley24 March 2010 at 09:23 #47779
Here is a picture of a LC 2 Litre sold by Lagonda in 1933 and originally fitted with the T7 body and cycle wings. I do not quite understand why the customer would have been “fobbed off” and that he had to be “persuaded” by a “keen salesman” to buy this motorcar with an “excellent discount” as Mr. Mallett seems to believe.
In my opinion it is a highly attractive car, both engine and chassis were by no means obsolete and, although 6 cylinders became the fashion around this time, many preferred the sturdiness of the more sporting 4 cylinder 2 Litre – which also had roughly the same performance as the 16/80.
Far more often than 16/80’s, 2 Litres participated for several years after 1933 in rally’s, trials etc.Barbara24 March 2010 at 14:29 #47780
Thanks for all the info. The date of my Lagonda is 25/3/1933 and the chassis number is S10341. I have been told the body should be a T2.
The chassis has been restored but we now need a body to complete it. Can anyone help please?oakley24 March 2010 at 16:54 #47781
That is a very interesting car for more than one reason. Your 2 Litre has the highest known “chassis” (actually “car”) number known so far! Could you do me an enormous favor and let me know what the engine number is – it is stamped on the near-side of the timing cover.
Your car should not necessarily have a T2 body. It is highly unlikely that your car is “High Chassis”. If it was sold in March 1933 it must be “Low Chassis” and other body types up to T6 would be equally suitable. You could look for the body you like best – pictures of all these types can be found in Geoffrey Seaton’s “Lagonda, an illustrated history 1900-1950”. Alas the Lagonda website still doesn’t show these different models.
I would be over the moon with that engine number!Alec Rivers-Bowerman24 March 2010 at 18:18 #47782
I understood a chassis number with an “S” prefix indicated a 16/80. I can’t see how this would end up on an older chassis.Colin M3424 March 2010 at 21:22 #47784
Alex is right. The full designation of the 16/80 that donated the T7 body which was put on my 1930 car was SWS10499.T7 . The first “S” stood for “Special”, the “W” for “Wilson” (ie preselector) and as Alex correctly mentioned the third “S” was for 16/80, matched up with a T7 body.
Barbara, can you enlighten us and give us the exact combination of numbers and letters on your chassis plate? This should give us a clue. Also please just confirm yours is a 4 not a 6-cylinder car.
It would also be instructive to have the same for Oakley’s car which I would expect to be OHLxxxx.T7
Just to add to my comments about enthusiastic salesmen wanting to sell a 3 year old development chassis as a new car, I have had some hilarious conversations with Lagonda Club Historian Arnold Davey, where he explained that at this time the company was so strapped for cash that they would do anything to get an order, after which the Works would have to scratch around for bits to fulfil it. Arnold said that this got so bad in 1935, that some really oddly specified cars were sold. I guess we will never know who bought Hans?s car from the factory but I?m sure he was pleased with it, especially if it had been a bargain!
Arnold also backs up the comment about 16/80s not being used in competition. Around this time there was a lot of snobbery about “Fizzers” and “Thumpers” – Rapiers and 16/80s were the former and 2 Litre, 3 Litre and M45s being the latter. I guess it would have been inevitable that someone of a sporting inclination would have been delighted to be offered a new car with the ‘old’ 2 Litre engine rather than having to put up with a “Fizzer”.
Actually, I like my 16/80, it is so different from my High Chassis 2 litre. They are like chalk and cheese, and its fun having both.
Colin M34oakley25 March 2010 at 08:30 #47785
As I said – I am also interested to know the true engine number on the timing case of Barbara’s car.
If indeed it is a 16/80 this doesn’t apply but surely Barbara’s car is a 4 cylinder 2 Litre? Or have I misunderstood that?
If it IS a 16/80 then it would need the T7 body. Not the T2.Barbara25 March 2010 at 16:39 #47786
It is a 2 lt engine. no is S2089 and I want a tourer bodyoakley25 March 2010 at 20:03 #47787
That must be the engine number on the ID plate – can you tell me the number stamped on the side of the timing cover at the front of the engine on the near side?
It would be very interesting to know this for the 2 Litre engine numbers file!
As for finding a tourer body – as I said, this car is a Low Chassis and can correctly be fitted with several types; do you have a preference? I might be able to help.
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