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Alec! What did you finally decide on for the frame? I am thinking powder coat myself as I had my wheels done and they turned out great. They look like they are painted not that horrible plastic appearance I have encountered in the past. The particular company I am dealing with has now been in the biz for many decades .They also do conventional paint. All the cross members on the M45 unbolt which leads me to my next question ( possibly should be in the tech or M45 section?) Are the bolts pictured from the original manufacturer? Does anyone care about such matters? I wonder if Pebble Beach judges even know.
Barry,
Guest, Keen and Nettlefolds made bolts for years. Still do I think. There’s lots of info online but I’m going to have to let you read it to see if this sheds any light on the matter. I hope this helps. https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/GKN
David
Well that settles it ! What an illustrious history and the name alone is worth the price of admission. I will save , bead blast and parkerize every original,useable fastener I can. Many thanks for the info Cheers,Barry
On my V12, which thank goodness has survived largely unmolested, the original bolts are generally plain on top, or have a small “C” (I wonder who the manufacturer was?) embossed top centre.
Your M45 is two models away and several years earlier, so knowing Lagonda’s (often debt prompted!) propensity for changing suppliers, would not be too concerned at the difference.
GKN are undoubtedly a quality manufacturer, and prolific….so many garages etc would have had stocks of GKN fastenings. That means there is a possibility that they are later replacements. Easiest answer I think is, are ALL the chassis bolts GKN? Unlikely someone would have changed all of them….unless your car has previously had a “nut and bolt restoration”….which could sadly infer that, indeed, every fastening has (often completely unnecessarily) been renewed.Laurence
My 16/80 was built in the latter part of 1932 and every original bolt I’ve looked at so far was machined from bar stock.
In addition, the bolt heads and nuts are thicker than the modern BSF standard. The bolt heads have a flat face where they contact the part, not the washer face you typically see on modern bolts. The nuts are also only chamfered on the outer face. The chamfers are also considerably smaller compared to modern bolts and nuts. The bolt lengths seem to be tailored for each spot – I don’t find the standard 1″, 1.25″ etc lengths, but instead lengths like 1.08″ or 1.19″, for example. And finally, just to make life even more difficult, the lock washers (which are the split type) are thinner than the standard modern ones. The “light” variety, which are not that easy to find, are a pretty good match.
There are also a number of BSW fasteners, and they have the prewar big heads and nuts.
I initially bought a bunch of BSF fasteners thinking I could use them as necessary, but they stand out like a sore thumb when you mix them in with the originals. So I machine up my own fasteners, using a larger size SAE grade 5 bolt as raw material. The nuts I make from 1215 free-machining steel.
I know this is a bit OCD but it definitely sharpens up the machining skills!
Barry – I haven’t painted the frame yet. I’ve been using industrial-grade rattle cans for the bracketry and smaller components.
AlecChamfers on one face only, on my V12’s nuts. It might be a tad anorak-y…but all the original plain washers have a chamfer, again on one face only (they’d be a bit sharp to handle if both faces chamfered!). I haven’t come across such washers elsewhere, so wonder if these are Lagonda own manufacture.
Have to say I was a trifle annoyed when I had my V12’s engine rebuilt. I had removed the lower sump plate previously. This is literally sewn on with a myriad of various size bolts and nuts. To aid the rebuilder, I cut out a sump shaped piece of cardboard, and pressed through each nut and bolt with their chamfered washers and locking washers, in its matching location. Yes….I got the cardboard back with the engine, still with all the original fastenings attached!
A small point perhaps, but what is wrong with re-using original fastenings, especially in low stress areas? Yes, the new fastenings look nice and shiny, and evidence work done…but I’d have preferred the originals used…not as if they were rusty or damaged. Ho hum, can always swap them over.
Laurence
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