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I’ve posted the following on the LG45 Section of this Forum.
Do readers think we will continue to see such barn finds ? Or are we coming to the end of this era ?1936 LAGONDA LG45 SALOON : The Final Barn Find ?
A complete LG45, with everything in place, although suffering from the dust of decades. Just check out the photos !
Chassis as redesigned by WO Bentley, bodywork by Frank Feeley, Meadows 4.5-litre engine to final LG specification.Online at : http://www.classic-auctions.com/…essSaloon-33077.aspx
A Lagonda acquaintance told me of an LG45 saloon near him a few years ago. Not the same one and in poor condition as kept under just a tarpaulin. The owner wasn’t interested in selling. Possibly still there.
David
Sadly, I think the car featured in the H&H auction is destined to be yet another Le Mans replica and no doubt the VSCC will allow it to race as such.
Here is one that used to belong to somebody I knew at work in the late 1960’s. He used it as regular transport and then put it away in a garage to restore later. He never did. This is a photo taken around 2000 with me beside it.
It is now beautifully restored and if the registration number looks familiar, it featured on the front cover of the Summer 2010 Lagonda Club magazine.
By the way, I believe that early LG45 saloons were not designed by Frank Feely, but Walter Buckingham. These have the designation “SB1” which is presumably “First Series Saloon Body”. I understand that the SB1 body was derived from the short-lived M45A saloon which was revived after the bankruptcy as the LG45.
“NJ” is a very early LG – chassis number 12002, though interestingly it had a Sanction 2 engine – so perhaps it was a factory demonstrator. In comparison, the one featured in the H&H auction is chassis number 12014 and has a Sanction 1 engine.
I will be interested to see its fate.
Colin M34
The saloon I mentioned is another early one, 12007. I’m told has a M45 engine though.
David,
The Sanction 1 engine is in most respects an M45 Rapide engine so might this be the correct engine for it? Main external difference is a Scintilla Vertex rather than distributor on the nearside.
Colin
Colin,
I don’t know. I’m only repeating what I was told. Not seen the car myself, only photos.
David
Let’s hope this does get restored. Saloons are becoming an endangered species…perhaps rarity will increase values & help justify restoration costs? Many 30s saloons are pretty dull if not ugly, but Lagonda saloons were always handsome, so surely that must help?!
My own LG6 was bought by the previous owner as a pretty derelict rolling chassis in 1985. I assumed it had lost its original saloon body in the 60s….but on getting what history I could from DVLA, was appalled to discover it had been taxed & on the road in 1979! What upsets me is that I’ve since been contacted by the families of the original owner and second owner, so I now have pictures of it on the day of delivery in 1939, and in the early 50s. Difficult explaining to them that, yes, “their” car survives, but not in a remotely recogniseable form. This is particularly galling for me, as I’d love similar photos of my V12, which is an original factory dhc….but no such luck.
At least the guy I bought it from, Richard Kelsall, had a body made up to his own design, as I would not have bought a replica.Laurence
For what it is worth I am sure there are lots more “barn finds”. Personally I know of two separate LG45 saloons that are in long term storage with absolutely no hope of being back on the road with their current owners. I have tried quite hard to buy them over the years and although the owners have no intention of doing anything with them they are equally determined not to let them go. Such is life.
For the record, I took the body off NJ 9185 and spent five years recreating a 1936 four-seater Le Mans car, as near as I could to the two original cars that the factory broke up in the late 1936. The reason I took the body off was the car had been stored in a very damp hanger and the ash frame had gone to pulp – it was simply way beyond repair, economic or otherwise. In my experience the VSCC is as through as one could expect from a membership organisation and certainly my buff form had to be justified with a supporting statement from the Club verifying the body was beyond repair – by no means a given- and no one would welcome serviceable saloons being broken for whatever reason. I also have a LG45 Saloon and what perhaps is not obvious is that they require a lot more maintenance than a tourer as well as being a more leisurely drive; I find that reasonably frequent use and lot of TLC appears to work well. Perhaps those of us with saloons should use them more often at Club events – so often there is only one or two out.
Hope that helps.
Stephen
Just to add to Stephen’s observation about NJ’s ‘pulpy’ ash frame, when we pulled it out of the garage, I put my foot through the rotten boards of the then owner’s pit which the car had been standing on for something like 30 years! The garage roof had been leaking so I am not surprised that it was an uneconomic restoration!
Hopefully the LG45 12014 was stored in drier conditions.
Colin
Hi all
I’ve been reading the replies with interest. I don’t think it’s strictly correct to say that any car is past restoration when such as Crossthwaite and Gardner can manufacture new AutoUnion GP cars from scratch and replica Bugattis are being made in South America so close to the original that the parts are interchangeable and Rod Jolly restores the most decrepit wrecks. However it reminds me of an article about a vintage racing yacht that was ‘restored’. It needed new keel,stem and stern, new frames and planks, new deck beams and deck, new machinery and rigging. Oh and the carefully preserved interior couldn’t be re=used because the layout had been changed. They did however use the steering wheel! So any car could be restored but would it be ‘original’ at the end.The dilema comes down to the economics and if the dealers can’t sell a LG45 saloon for ?65,000 (a two tone blue has been advertised for months) there is not much money for both purchase and restoration. It is just unfortunate that saloons are the poor relation and only valued at 40% of an open model or a well constructed replica. I bought my M45 saloon body some 10 years ago and have been collecting parts ever since. It had been roadgoing until being sold at auction, a bit loose in the joints and the door used to come open so it had to go. With only 19 M45 saloons recorded in the Register of Members Book I think they are an endangered species and deserve to be restored to original, even though my end product may be from a dozen cars and probably worth half of what a replica tourer would
fetch at auction. I also have a special, shortened chassis and lowered radiator but it was made in the 1950’s when even a genuine LeMans car was shortened and lowered and a LG45 Rapide was cut about to make a racer and many Lagondas just went to the scrap yard. That was 50=60 year ago but today I raelly think it is about preserving what we have rather than chopping up and throwing away the body which was perhaps the biggest contribution made to the car by the Lagonda workforce.Just my personal views but I hope the car at auction ends up as a restored Lagonda saloon.I don’t doubt Rod Jolley could “restore” a wreck. A bit like the proverbial broom you’ve had for thirty years . . . but you have replaced the head 10 times and the handle 6 times. Not the same broom anymore. With enough money you can remake practically anything. Does an id plate and the original steering wheel make it the same car? Read a few articles in “Automobile” magazine and it is amazing what can be resurrected. Most cars, of any make, that need a major restoration would, I imagine, cost more to restore by a specialist than they could be sold for when finished?
There are some fairly hideous original bodies on Rolls Royces. Should one care about throwing away the body of those when rotten? Lagondas mainly have factory bodies I believe, so don’t suffer the problem of ugly bodies.
The LG45 saloon I mentioned in a previous post appears to have deep pitting in most of the chassis components from the photographs I have seen. I doubt that will ever be restored. A shame, but who is going to throw time and a lot of money at finding and replacing a lot of parts, possibly including the chassis. I imagine the engine is savable.
David
Hi,
Very interesting subject!
May I join in with a few views from different sides!
I hear a lot about “Replica” this and “Replica” that but what “actually is a “Replica” ??
I say it is a complete newly made copy (such like the new Auto Unions and Mercedes cars being made now) and thus are a “Complete Replica” AND I MEAN NO DIS-RESPECT BY THIS!
Where as a plastic SS100 Jaguar on XJ6 running gear for example is not a replica but a new car resembling X Y or Z.
On the other hand we have an M45 Saloon with a dead body.
Yes we can restore the body, but what if we need to replace 95% of the frame and panels? We will then have an original M45 with a “Replica” saloon body! Ok it left the factory with the same type of body but this body is NEW! so not original and not “the original” So our car also is not “Original” although it is to original specification! But so are the Auto Unions! There is a difference and I know that well and truly but there is a very indistinct line between what is and what isn’t “original” and on who’s interpretation.Laurence, says he would NEVER buy a “replica” yet he gladly bought a car with a body resembling nothing ever made by Lagonda! I find this very odd but completely respect his thoughts and “thinking” (he just has a different classification of the subject to me) and he is not wrong, just of different opinion on the subject!
If we are to restore this imaginary M45 with a dead body, (or what if we find a complete car with NO body as we have had in on many occasion) and the owner decides that he would rather have an M45 with say a T7 body, the new T7 body if made well, (let us say by one of the best like RJ ltd) will be exactly the same (or as close as any two Lagondas ever were) as every other T7 bodied M45, but it will have a “Replica” body. So in short it will be at the end of the restoration an M45 with a Replica Lagonda Factory body. And so will the car be if Restored with a newly made Saloon body! What is the difference? Again I have my views on how to differentiate but a lot of that is “Gut feeling” rather than something actually definable.
At the end of the day I see it like this.
There are more Lagondas being saved and restored and used because they are fun in whatever incarnation they come back in than would be the case if we all were forced to “preserve” anything and everything that we could of whatever we find! Weather we like it or not, people will pay more for a sports type car than a heavy full bodied car that does not attract the ladies ;o) and when restoring our cars, “Most” but not all of us are forced to think with some consideration to economics! let us face it, not many of us can afford to pile 200k into the restoration of a car that would net us 60k if heaven forbid we were forced to sell it!
The more cars being saved from scrap the better! Totally original or not!My view?
In short, unless it’s my money then it’s not my choice!
I too like saloons, (I have even bought a few just to stop them being molested, and refused to sell them for the same reason) but I like more to see working cars being loved and used than dead wrecks getting worse because no one wants them for what they are or were!Happy motoring,
JulianHi all,
Cheffins auction of the 16th April sold LG 45 chassis no 12124 reg. EPE 231 that once was with the Gairdner family and had a 6LK engine fitted but later a Jaguar XK 120 engine. Needs restoration and a Meadows engine! or if you could get the Gairdner 6LK. Some LG 45’s were fitted with 4LK units even from new.
It was sold for ?6400.00 so looked good value.
Best of luck to the new owner.
Eddie Bourke.Damn!!! Just what I was looking for!
Barn Find LG 45 # 12133, Chassis is complete, Body is missing. Presently has a Bugatti Type 57 body. have traced ownership back to 1949 John Troka Chicago Duesenberg dealer.
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