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After several years of consulting a great number of “experts” who gave me conflicting information, I decided to use my own brains and have now come up with a simple yet accurate manual for timing the camhafts/valves of the Lagonda 2 Litre engine.
It has been tested and approved by Peter Jones, the world’s best expert on Lagonda 2 Litre engines.
Let me know if you are interested and I’ll email you a copy.I would like to add to what Oakley has said about conflicting opinions on various technical aspects of 2 Litres. I write this from my background of having worked in industrial research for the last 40 years in the ICT field. One of the fascinations with Lagondas in general, and 2 Litres in particular is that there is a no right or wrong answer and NOBODY is the BEST expert – IMHO there are just shades of opinion that deserve respect more than others.
This is perfectly normal in academic and industrial research where respect is earned by peer review. I used to work with a gentleman called Phil Ridout who died a few years ago. He was a very precise and hugely respected industrial researcher who happened to have a lifelong passion – 2 Litre Lagondas – both blown and unblown ones. Many of you may have known him. For some 35 years, Peter Jones and I together shared the incredible fund of knowledge that Phil amassed regarding 2 Litres – and gave it freely and with great enthusiasm. Peter and I have both enjoyed adding to this fund of knowledge by sharing our own discoveries as well.
One of the first fruits of Phil’s retirement was the design of the 2 Litre downdraft cylinder head. I bought one of the first batch some 15 years ago from Wessex workshops. Before he died, Phil, with Peter, then went on to consider camshaft timing and remember, this is a complex topic without a right or wrong answer. I would therefore always respect advice from this quarter and my camshafts (standard profile) are timed to Peters suggestions, and the car goes really well.
However, Phil was quite a modest man – as many respected researchers were – and he was the first to get excited about new thinking – so he was the ideal person to peer review other people’s opinions and ideas. There are bound to be conflicting opinions – often passed out as ‘information’, and I learnt from him that sharing knowledge can help us all of us form an opinion about what is the best answer to help us to enjoy our hobby more.
For this reason so I look forward to reading Oakley’s contribution to the body of knowledge on Lagonda 2 Litre engine and will value it highly as an addition to my own fund of knowledge. Much of this, like Peter’s, was derived from enjoyable time spent with Phil, bless his memory.
Readers might like to note that the Club is making new 2 Litre timing sprockets, to go with the camshaft spiders and bushes already in production, so accurate timing can be done with good new components.
Colin M34
ps. This forum is a very good place to air this topic and others like it.
May I point out that when I said I received “conflicting information” it was not about the timing of the camshafts/valves itself (which can indeed vary and depend on the perferences of the driver of the car) but about the METHOD of doing it.
There are several ways of doing it, some simple, some complicated, some accurate, some less so, but there are also ways of doing it wrong.
That is what I meant when I wrote that I received conflicting advice and therefore I produced this manual which is simple, accurate and thoroughly tested.I have send copies of my 2 Litre valve/camshaft timing manual to a number of members, but would like to add that after some trial and error I discovered that the optimum timing for the Newman camshafts as supplied by the Lagonda Club is for the inlet valves to open at 15 degrees BTDC and the exhaust valves to be fully closed at 12 degrees ATDC (unchanged), resulting in an overlap of 27 degrees.
I have discussed this with David Newman himself and he agrees with these values, rather than the original specifications of 12/12. It makes a surprising difference; the engine runs much smoother with this setting and is significantly more economical on petrol.Hi Hans
This is interesting information! Can you tell us the typical MPG you are getting with the new cams and downdraft head?
I average 27 MPG with my Lagonda 2 Litre – a bit better if I would always stick to the speed limits and drove somewhat more carefully! Because of the high-compression pistons, I use Super (“four star” or 97 octane) petrol.
I did a lot of driving over the last few days and I have done a more accurate measurement of the fuel consumption of my car and I fear that it is somewhat less optimistic. It turns out to be 24 mpg; still quite nice for a 2 Litre and certainly better then with the previous valve timing. Also the car runs much smoother.
I have to get back on that last report – insofar that during a just completed 10 day drive of 1100 miles through northern Spain and the French Dordongne I was able to do a very accurate measurement and the final conclusion is that my 2 Litre Lagonda has an average fuel consumption of 26.5 MPG.
Hello, I’m new to the club. I’m very interested in the Manual for timing the camhafts/valves of the Lagonda 2 Liter.
Thanks
Pascal
Thank you – I would appreciate an email copy of the manual. Our car is a 1931 2 litre supercharged LC.
Thank you for all the advice. Much appreciated. I would love if you could send me a copy of the camshaft/valve timing manual for 1929 2 litre HC. Many thanks
Neil Robottom
Please send me a copy as well
many thanks David Hine
The original post was made in 2009 and I have tried unsuccesfully to contact “Oakley” although I believe that he may still be a member of the club.
Probably best however to assume that it’s unlikely that the manual is still available.
Should anyone be in contact with “Oakley” perhaps they can mention to him the recent posts on the forum…. many thanks.
Hello David and everybody; I send David an email with the manual attached but here it is again; by all means let me know if there remain questions; it’s a simple one-page explanation which you can print and take with you to your garage.
VALVE TIMING PROCEDURE OF THE LAGONDA 2 LITRE ENGINE, USING AS AN
EXAMPLE THE NEWMAN CAMSHAFTS PROVIDED BY THE LAGONDA CLUB WITH
27 ° VALVE OVERLAP TO BE SET FOR INLET VALVES OPENING AT 15° BTDC AND
EXHAUST VALVES FULLY CLOSING AT 12° ATDC.
©Hans Eekhoff Revised Edition 2023.
1. Remove front floorboards and count the number of teeth on the flywheel (usually 118) and calculate
how many degrees one tooth represents (with 118 teeth this is practically 3° per tooth).
2. Turn the flywheel and determine TDC (Top Dead Centre = the highest point) of No. 1 (front) piston
(the flywheel might already be marked). Mark the flywheel with a thin line and “TDC” exactly opposite
the fixed reference point on the bell housing. Use quick drying white paint, Tipp-Ex or a white felt pen.
3. Then mark the flywheel:
a. with a thin line and the letter “A” at 15° before (5 teeth to the left of) TDC.
b. with a thin line and the letter “B” at 12° after (4 teeth to the right of) TDC.
4. Remove the timing cover, both rocker covers, all but No. 1 cylinder inlet and exhaust rockers and the
timing adjustment plates of the inlet and exhaust camshafts (the latter is attached to the fibre magneto
gear) by removing the three ¼” set screws of each.
5. Set the No. 1 cylinder inlet and exhaust valve tappet clearances at .006″ – .008″ and make sure that the tensions of both timing chains are correctly adjusted (about ¼” slackness – see page 39 of the Lagonda 2 Litre Instruction Book for the procedure).
6. Turn the engine so that the “A” line on the flywheel is exactly opposite the fixed reference point on the bell housing and then turn the inlet (n/s) camshaft, from the front, anti-clockwise until you feel the cam touching the rocker arm of the first inlet valve (in other words, if the camshaft is turned further, the valve will start to open). The camshaft can be turned very easily and should move independently from the sprocket wheel and timing chain which stay in place, but it may be necessary to slacken the locknuts first and free the timing spiders a bit, while making sure that the holding keys do not drop out.
7. Refit the inlet camshaft adjustment plate, using the Vernier adjuster to align the holes for the set
screws. Make sure that the camshaft stays in position against the rocker arm and when the adjustment
plate is fixed, mark this position with Tipp-Ex on the plate and the engine; around the 8 o’clock position is the easiest spot.
8. Turn the flywheel to the “B” line and again mark the position of the inlet camshaft adjustment plate.
This will be about 3/8″ further anti-clockwise from the first mark you made.
9. Turn the exhaust (o/s) camshaft, from the front, clockwise until the cam touches the rocker arm of the first exhaust valve (in other words, when turned anti-clockwise, the cam would have just gone past the rocker arm and the valve would just be fully closed).
10. Refit the exhaust camshaft adjustment plate with fibre magneto gear, making sure that the camshaft stays clockwise against the rocker arm. Use the Vernier adjuster to align the holes for the set screws.
11. Everything should now be set with the flywheel on the “B” line, the inlet adjustment plate on the
second mark that you made and the exhaust camshaft clockwise touching the rocker arm.
12. Because of play in the sprocket wheels and timing chains a correction might be needed. Turn the
engine a few times, set the flywheel on the “A” mark to correct the inlet camshaft position (as in 6) and
the flywheel on the “B” mark to correct the exhaust camshaft position (as in 11), using the Vernier
adjusters.
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